Transcript of Voice of Community chat

Topic: VOC meeting #16
Date: October 9th, 2009
Time: 4:00 PM Central European Time
Duration: 1 hour
Chat client: Skype
Participants:
  • Annabel Melongo (USA)
  • Jiří Kovalský (Czech Republic)
  • Michel Graciano (Brazil)

  • Agenda:
    1. Update: 6.8 M2/Beta status [Jiri, 5 minutes]
    2. Update: netbeans.org migration [Jiri, 5 minutes]
    3. Discussion: Potential VOC issues [Annabel, Tushar, Michel - 45 minutes]
    4. Q&A, [all, 5 minutes]

    Minutes:

  • Jiri updated VOC team about latest NetBeans 6.8 Milestone 2 release and the plan for Beta.
  • Jiri informed VOC team about upcoming migration of NetBeans infrastructure to Kenai.com
  • Annabel's issues: #160747 (incorrect state of "Continue") - fixed in 6.8 but not in 6.7/6.7.1, #156766 (problem when installing plugins from UC) - closed as duplicate of #174048, outage of http://www.netbeans.tv - videos to be moved to Sun Channel portal
  • Jiri briefly explained a duty of being NetBeans Governance Board member
  • Action items:

  • Annabel to suggest some user to use latest 6.8 in order to avoid hitting #160747
  • Michel & Annabel to test if they are able to install Identity Manager IDE plugin to 6.7.1
  • Jiri to review & arrange publishing of the article about VOC program
  • Transcript:

    16:07:36* Jiří Kovalský invited michel.graciano
    16:07:36Annabel Melongo: I can login to kenai without issue but right now, I can't just post anything...
    16:07:53* Jiří Kovalský has changed the chat topic to "Voice of Community meeting #16"
    16:08:03Michel Graciano: Hi
    16:08:18Jiří Kovalský: Hello, Michel we will have the meeting here again.
    16:08:23Annabel Melongo: Hi, sorry for this...
    16:08:34Michel Graciano: no problem for me
    16:08:35Jiří Kovalský: Annabel is facing similar problems.
    16:09:06… I just wonder what happened to Tushar.
    16:11:09* Jiří Kovalský invited tusharvjoshi
    16:11:45Jiří Kovalský: Let's start in 4 minutes if Tushar does not show up.
    16:11:55Annabel Melongo: sure...
    16:12:10Michel Graciano: okey
    16:15:19Jiří Kovalský: Hello folks! I am happy to kick off today's Voice of Community gathering #16. Tushar will be able at least to read our transcript.
    16:15:37… Let's get started right away. First of all, I would like to congratulate all of you for being nominated to the NetBeans Governance Board. That's a clear proof your work has been recognized! Great job VOC captains indeed.
    16:15:54Michel Graciano: :)
    16:16:10Annabel Melongo: well...
    16:16:28Jiří Kovalský: Now I would like to speak a little about recent change in the NetBeans 6.8 schedule. I am sure you noticed we unexpectedly released Milestone 2 yesterday.
    16:16:43… The reason for this decision is simple: we want to bundle JavaFX support already with Beta and since development of the rest was finished we are offering another certified build to our community until JavaFX is ready as well.
    16:16:54… The logic is to get feedback on the new features like J2EE 6 support, improved Kenai.com integration, better PHP/Maven/Ruby/C++ etc. You know, the sooner we know about serious defects the more time for bug fixing. :-)
    16:17:03… We strongly believe that NetBeans community will appreciate this approach. Did any of you notice some comments about this surprise? :-)
    16:17:36Annabel Melongo: sofar none...
    16:17:45Michel Graciano: me neither
    16:17:53… I just saw several people testing it
    16:17:57… even outside netcat
    16:19:27Jiří Kovalský: That's very good. I am glad that Gregg Wonderly considers the classpath scanning better. We really tried to address this area.
    16:20:22… OK. The next item on the agenda. Countdown to migration of NetBeans infrastructure has started and the process will start on Wednesday, October 21st at 5:00 PM CET/8:00 AM PST. The migration should be completed on Sunday, October 25th at 8:00 PM CET/11:00 AM PST.
    16:20:33… We will migrate all bugs, mailing lists, users, projects, web, files and Wiki. Please note that some accounts might change and all users will receive new passwords.
    16:20:43… More information about this biggest change in NetBeans project history is available here: http://wiki.netbeans.org/NewNBOrg Please cross your fingers, pray or whatever you find appropriate! :-)
    16:20:52… Any questions regarding this topic?
    16:21:01Michel Graciano: one little comment
    16:21:12… I really like Bugzilla integration
    16:21:32… I am really happy to use it to work with it for NetBeans project as well
    16:21:33… :)
    16:22:08Jiří Kovalský: Oh, you mean the chance to stay in the IDE, right?
    16:22:10Annabel Melongo: Last week I keep receiving strange messages as to my account being blocked or something from nbdev... does it has anything to do with this?
    16:22:28Jiří Kovalský: I don't think so.
    16:22:47… Was the message something like e-mails were bouncing?
    16:22:47Michel Graciano: yes, I mean work directly inside IDE instead browser
    16:23:02Annabel Melongo: yes...
    16:23:08Jiří Kovalský: Yes @ Michel, browsers will soon become obsolete SW. ;-)
    16:23:37… Don't panic Annabel. That happens from time to time and it will disappear itself.
    16:23:50Annabel Melongo: good to know...
    16:24:03Jiří Kovalský: No action on your side is required unless you get this message for several days in a row.
    16:24:23… So, now we are getting to your input. Who wants to go first? I guess Annabel, right? ;-)
    16:24:37Annabel Melongo: Sure...
    16:24:47Jiří Kovalský: Please, start.
    16:25:13Annabel Melongo: My first issue is about the debugger which has many duplicates: http://www.netbeans.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=160747
    16:25:48… I don't think it's the first time I'm submitting this issue. Can someone really look at it? It's getting louder and louder...
    16:26:03Jiří Kovalský: Re: #160747, who is complaining about it Annabel?
    16:26:26Annabel Melongo: That issue alone has, I think, 5 duplicates...
    16:26:34Jiří Kovalský: The reason I am asking is to find out if the person used NetBeans 6.7/6.7.1 or development build of NetBeans 6.8. As you can see #160747 is a duplicate of #167776 which got fixed in trunk ~2 months ago. So 6.7 users can still face the bug while "Continue" button in 6.8 should always be enabled when breakpoint is hit.
    16:26:56… So, who in particular contacted you?
    16:27:54Annabel Melongo: Nobody personally contacted me, I saw it on the mailing list and I put it in my issue pool.
    16:28:13Jiří Kovalský: And do you still have the source?
    16:28:27… Did the person mention 6.7 or 6.8?
    16:28:46Annabel Melongo: It was NB 6.7
    16:29:22Jiří Kovalský: OK. So please instruct the individual about what I just said or get him/her study the bug history him/herself.
    16:29:47… BTW, I know you are bringing this issue here not the first time. ;-)
    16:30:05… Can we move on?
    16:30:07Annabel Melongo: Sure. So you say the issue has been taken care of in 6.8?
    16:30:20Jiří Kovalský: Yes, that's exactly what I am saying.
    16:30:41… But the fix has not been backported to 6.7.
    16:30:56… Not even via patch on the Update Center.
    16:31:14Annabel Melongo: This is also another issue that I've already talked with you: http://www.netbeans.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=156766
    16:31:30… You're actually the person it was assigned to.
    16:31:39Jiří Kovalský: Yes. :-) #156766 is another fossil. We have already discussed this before and there was no progress since then. However, I have tried to install Identity Manager IDE 8.1 plugin [1] together with "pre61completion.nbm" module [2] into my 6.7.1 and it worked just fine!
    16:31:46… [1] https://identitymanageride.dev.java.net/files/documents/7959/101912/com-sun-idm-ide_8.1.0.20080630.nbm [2] http://updates.netbeans.org/netbeans/updates/6.5/uc/final/stable/modules/ide10/org-netbeans-modules-editor-deprecated-pre61completion.nbm
    16:31:53… I see new IDM menu item, I can create new Identity Manager Project etc. Can you also test it now? In my opinion this is a non-issue.
    16:32:06… Do you have your 6.7.1 IDEs running?
    16:32:38Annabel Melongo: No, I shut it down
    16:32:50Jiří Kovalský: OK. Michel?
    16:32:56Michel Graciano: yes
    16:33:00Annabel Melongo: I will test it later though and I'll tell you the result
    16:33:32Jiří Kovalský: No problem. I just want you to try it for yourself so that you get confident in your reply to the complainer. ;-)
    16:33:35Michel Graciano: I can test it later too, right now is a little complicated
    16:33:55… because my 6.7 is a little tricky
    16:33:56… ;)
    16:34:04Jiří Kovalský: But beware, there is one issue.
    16:34:16… What tricky @ Michel?
    16:34:47Michel Graciano: My IDE has several plugins, so the test will not be really truth
    16:34:49Jiří Kovalský: Don't install "Identity Manager" via "Available" tab of Plugins Manager. This is something else!
    16:35:13… Sure. Just use --userdir ..\abcd :-)
    16:35:18Michel Graciano: I need to use an new user dir to have an real test
    16:35:48Jiří Kovalský: OK. I am looking forward to your findings.
    16:36:00Annabel Melongo: Just curious, why not thru "Available?"
    16:36:33Jiří Kovalský: Because the "Identity Manager" 1.3.1 is completely different functionality.
    16:37:07… In 6.5 times it was called only Identity and it has nothing common with Identity Manager IDE plugin that issue is about.
    16:37:30… You must download [1] and [2] and install them via "Downloaded" tab.
    16:37:51… Do you want to continue Annabel?
    16:38:34Annabel Melongo: Ok, I understand. My next issue is about netbeans.tv that's not showing anything. Fabrizio said it is being looked into, any idea when the fix?
    16:39:19Jiří Kovalský: As for the NetBeans TV station, it's really down at the moment. The site has been experiencing major technical difficulties and a Czech company providing the service was not able to fix the problems in a timely manner so we decided to move NetBeans TV to Sun Channel [3] corporate server. [3] http://channelsun.sun.com/video/software/netbeans/41815465001
    16:39:26… However, it's not a piece of cake to migrate such a huge amount of videos. If everything will be fine, we are going to announce availability of the new location next week. Please stay tuned.
    16:40:02Annabel Melongo: Sure. Thanks. That's all I had today.
    16:40:15Jiří Kovalský: Excellent. So, now the floor is Michel's.
    16:40:27Michel Graciano: I have no issue for today
    16:40:27Jiří Kovalský: Michel, do you have something for us today?
    16:40:33… OK.
    16:40:37Michel Graciano: I am a little busy these days
    16:40:39… sorry
    16:40:50Annabel Melongo: @Michel, tell me about it...
    16:40:55Jiří Kovalský: That's okay.
    16:41:06… I can imagine that.
    16:41:28Annabel Melongo: What's about the voc article? already published?
    16:41:36Jiří Kovalský: Not yet.
    16:42:29… Actually I didn't have time to read the final version yet but will do it soon. I have already processed almost all unread e-mails so just be patient please.
    16:42:46… Are you OK with the latest version Michel?
    16:43:26Michel Graciano: yes, I read it before and have just saw some little typo, as netbeans but nothing severe
    16:44:29Jiří Kovalský: We will fix these minor things ourselves. I think publishing it now would be a clever thing taking into account your nominations for NetBeans Governance Board. :-)
    16:45:20Michel Graciano: :)
    16:45:36Jiří Kovalský: So, if nobody has any other questions, we can close today's meeting.
    16:45:45Annabel Melongo: Talking about the Governance board, can you tell us a little bit about it? I've been actually surprised to be nominated? Why is it the same people get nominated over and over again? What's one get from being a member?
    16:46:41Jiří Kovalský: People get nominated multiple times if they did a good job in the past and keep the same passion.
    16:47:16… Community (mainly DreamTeam) acknowledges that.
    16:47:50… And what you get? Just more responsibility for the project. :-) However, it's very very little work.
    16:48:21… Some boards didn't actually have to do anything if nothing controversial showed up.
    16:48:31Annabel Melongo: What's the relation between the board and the dream team? Can you be member of both?
    16:49:13… Why is it, it's just 6 months?
    16:49:55Jiří Kovalský: Sure, you can. DreamTeam is in fact a team of power users who mainly evangelize NetBeans. They are consultants, speaking about NetBeans at conferences, teaching at universities, blogging about it or doing other promotion.
    16:51:27… Board is time limited. It's the supreme instance to resolve complaints from community and stuff like that.
    16:51:40Michel Graciano: well, I need to go people
    16:51:51… some issue shows up here
    16:51:58… see you sson, good weekend
    16:52:01… see you
    16:52:10Annabel Melongo: Ok, Michel, have a nice weekend.
    16:52:22Jiří Kovalský: I remember when we declined to include Tim Lebedkov's Task List module into standard distribution he turned to board.
    16:52:33… Bye Michel!
    16:52:42… Thanks for joining us today.
    16:54:56… Or there was a complaint from a team which required to receive NetBeans Innovator Grant money ~1 year ago. Board members evaluated that case and issued final verdict.
    16:55:09… Is it clear now Annabel?
    16:56:17Annabel Melongo: Yes much clear. I had all those questions and I couldn't ask them to Tinuola and I didn't have time to read the wiki. so I decide to ask them here. Now I understand. The other teams do the work and the board plays the judge...
    16:56:44… That's pretty cool...
    16:56:57… I will ALWAYS go for that kind of job.
    16:57:29Jiří Kovalský: Yes, you got me right.
    16:57:52… So, we are done for today, aren't we?
    16:58:25Annabel Melongo: Besides myself, I also voted for someone in the voc team. But I won't tell who... :D
    16:58:38… Have a nice weekend.
    16:58:42Jiří Kovalský: :-D OK.
    16:58:51… You too. Enjoy free days.
    16:58:59… Bye


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