Transcript of Voice of Community chat

Topic: VOC meeting #15
Date: September 11th, 2009
Time: 4:00 PM Central European Time
Duration: 1 hour
Chat client: Skype
Participants:
  • Annabel Melongo (USA)
  • Jiří Kovalský (Czech Republic)
  • Michel Graciano (Brazil)
  • Tushar Joshi (India)

  • Agenda:
    1. Update: 6.8 Beta status update [Jiri, 5 minutes]
    2. Update: VOC article progress [Tushar, 5 minutes]
    3. Info: plugin verifier, next meeting on 10/9 [Jiri, 5 minutes]
    4. Discussion: Potential VOC issues [Annabel, Tushar, Michel - 40 minutes]
    5. Q&A, [all, 5 minutes]

    Minutes:

  • Jiri updated VOC team about latest progress of NetBeans 6.8 Beta stabilization.
  • Team discussed if it's better to fix 1 P2 bug or 10 P3 bugs. Agreement is that P2 should take precedence.
  • Tushar was busy recently and could not finish article about VOC.
  • Jiri is looking for a new Plugin Verifier and asked VOC captains to send him good candidates (if any).
  • Team accepted Jiri's proposal to meet on October 9th next time due to his 2 weeks vacation.
  • Annabel's issues: #169820 (migration path from Woodstock to JSF 2.0) - VWP unfortunately in "Put on hold" mode now, #170231 (exclusion of packages/classes) - complex issue which involves several teams, certainly not in scope of 6.8
  • Tushar requested help with getting his patch for #105236 applied.
  • Action items:

  • Annabel promised to help Tushar with finishing VOC article by the end of the week.
  • Jiri to inform VOC team about any progress on #170231.
  • Jiri to help integrate Tushar's patch of #105236.
  • Annabel to explain her "broken links" issue via VOC mailing list.
  • Transcript:

    16:12:15* Tushar Joshi joined chat
    16:12:20Annabel Melongo: I saw Tushar online at Skype...maybe he's waiting in the chatroom ...
    16:12:28Tushar Joshi: I just came
    16:12:34Jiří Kovalský: Oh, great!
    16:12:53… So, good morning & good evening everyone! :-) Thanks for joining our 15th VOC meeting already. Let's just get started.
    16:13:10… First, I would like to give you a short status update on the stabilization of the NetBeans 6.8 release.
    16:13:26… Unfortunately, development of new features was more difficult than we expected in some areas which is reflected by current bug counts. We found out that planned quality criteria cannot be achieved on the original timeframe based on an average bug fix rate and resources analysis. Hence it's almost inevitable that Beta will slip for at least one week.
    16:13:39… In particular, Platform, Life Cycle Tools, Editor, Profiler and Connected Developer areas are in a relatively good shape whereas CND, Web&J2EE + Ruby/PHP will need several more weeks to achieve Beta quality. On the other hand we must realize that quality criteria is more strict this time than it used to be for NetBeans 6.7. We are still wondering whether it's better to fix one nasty P2 bug or fix 10 P3s instead. What would be your recommendation by the way? ;-)
    16:13:58* Jiří Kovalský has changed the chat topic to "Voice of Community meeting #15"
    16:15:00Annabel Melongo: I think it will really depend on how loud is the complaint on the P2 bug...
    16:16:27Tushar Joshi: IMO P2 should be fixed first
    16:16:34Jiří Kovalský: Hm, good answer. We can't do mini polls on each P2 unfortunately. What if the P2 has for example only <3 votes and 1 duplicate?
    16:16:39Annabel Melongo: I would suggest we put a threshold on the complaints' count and if that threshold is reached then the p2 nasty bug is fixed if not then priority is given to p3 bugs instead.
    16:17:25Jiří Kovalský: What threshold exactly are you thinking about?
    16:17:41Annabel Melongo: I will go with 5 complaints...
    16:18:06Jiří Kovalský: Meaning 2 duplicates + 2 votes?
    16:18:25Annabel Melongo: yes, duplicates included...
    16:18:43… in this case 2 duplicates + 3 votes
    16:19:29Jiří Kovalský: You don't want to count the issue itself?
    16:19:56Annabel Melongo: oh yes, the 2 dup + 2 votes :D
    16:21:24Jiří Kovalský: OK. So, that's the basic message. Any questions so far?
    16:21:38Michel Graciano: IMHO, this is why we have priorities, to define which issues should be fixed before others
    16:21:45… :)
    16:22:01Tushar Joshi: Exactly I will also say P2 is because of it is P2 severe
    16:22:49Jiří Kovalský: Yes, but then some community members find out how many P3s were left in the product...
    16:23:27Annabel Melongo: @Tushar, Michel : The priority is one thing and the demand of having that priority implemented is yet another thing...
    16:24:20Jiří Kovalský: Yes, some P3s might be P2s in reality... :-)
    16:24:42… Great, thanks for your input. Now I would like to ask Tushar to inform us about the VOC article. Is there any progress Tushar?
    16:25:15Tushar Joshi: Unfortunately no progress from my side, my schedule was very tight this time :(
    16:26:02* Annabel Melongo disconnected
    16:26:08Jiří Kovalský: Yes, I have seen that this time only Annabel delivered her VOC issue candidates.
    16:26:16… And we just lost her. :-(
    16:27:18… OK, never mind Tushar. Don't worry about it. Take your time and finish the article at your earliest convenience.
    16:27:30* Annabel Melongo joined chat
    16:27:41Annabel Melongo: I'm back
    16:27:45Michel Graciano: :)
    16:28:05Tushar Joshi: Thanks, Annabel can you help me with the Article, providing some new contents according to the last chat?
    16:28:12Annabel Melongo: Regarding the article: The WONTFIX issues, the catching phrase and Jiri and Michel impressions are still missing.
    16:29:03… The article will be done on my side by the end of this week. Promise... :*
    16:29:29Jiří Kovalský: Wow, cool!
    16:29:47… Recorded in the transcript Annabel. :-)
    16:30:03Annabel Melongo: I'll that promise at all cost..
    16:30:16Jiří Kovalský: OK, thanks. Let's move on then.
    16:32:39Tushar Joshi: I have no priority issues this time
    16:32:53Michel Graciano: me neither
    16:33:04Jiří Kovalský: Well, I have two more things today. Unfortunately, I am looking for another plugin verifier again because one of the new volunteers was assigned a big project and will be busy until December. This is too late and I have to resolve this situation immediately. So, I wanted to ask you to think it over and if you know about some good candidate for this role, please let me know! If you need more information just ask. Thank you very much for your help.
    16:34:01… The second issue concerns our next meeting. Since our family is going on 2 weeks long vacation in late September, I propose to meet on October 9th next time. Any objections?
    16:34:03Annabel Melongo: Ok, we'll look around...
    16:34:14Jiří Kovalský: Thanks really.
    16:34:39Tushar Joshi: so that is 4 weeks ahead
    16:34:45… ok with me
    16:34:45Annabel Melongo: Jiri, how many vacations you have a year? You're ALWAYS on vacation...
    16:34:54Jiří Kovalský: :-D
    16:35:17… We have 4 weeks by law plus Sun gives us one week extra.
    16:35:21Annabel Melongo: I just have two weeks per year...
    16:35:31… you're really spoiled
    16:36:10Jiří Kovalský: No, we work so hard here that we need 5 weeks! :-D
    16:36:37Michel Graciano: :)
    16:36:42Annabel Melongo: Sure you do...That's why we have all this bugs...
    16:36:47Jiří Kovalský: So I take it as the date was approved. OK?
    16:36:48Tushar Joshi: What is the criteria of plugin verifier, must they be active members of community or any one who is willing to take the task is ok?
    16:37:15Jiří Kovalský: They don't have to be active members of community.
    16:37:41… However, they must be familiar with the IDE and some spare time is most important.
    16:38:16Tushar Joshi: got it and noted, I will check with some community members for this
    16:38:18Jiří Kovalský: It's not much time required but the regularity is the key.
    16:38:43… Michel's candidate Paulo is doing fine now. Thanks Michel!
    16:39:11… Final Call: meeting on 10/9 is OK?
    16:39:27Annabel Melongo: No objection on my side.
    16:39:45Michel Graciano: no problem to me too
    16:40:13… :) good to know about Paulo
    16:40:15Tushar Joshi: ok with me also
    16:41:01Jiří Kovalský: And now the meeting is yours. :-) Annabel was the only one who sent VOC issue candidates upfront so the floor is yours Annabel.
    16:41:36Annabel Melongo: I will need an update on this issue: http://netbeans.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=169820 . I know I sent you an email about creating a pool for which option to choose and I haven't read your reply yet...
    16:42:26Jiří Kovalský: Fine, so regarding the highly demanded VWP issue (#169820) I don't have good news probably. I must point out again that since the massive layoffs in January we are forced to divide modules into 3 categories and VWP belongs to the last category containing "Put on hold" functionality. We don't even have manpower to fix current outstanding showstoppers which is why the plugins will be available on 6.8 Beta Update Center hopefully shortly after 6.8 is released.
    16:43:19Annabel Melongo: What do you think about creating a survey and asking people to give us their preferences on Icefaces migration or Woodstock continue maintenance
    16:43:29Tushar Joshi: Just to add more from my side I also have seen many updates to this issue and people are coming to NetBeans due to this facility more
    16:44:11Jiří Kovalský: I have asked about this John Jullion-Ceccarelli (NB Engineering Manager) and he says: "The basic line is that it is a major investment to write a tool that would migrate from one VW to JSF 2.0 and it's unclear whether such a thing could be made to work with anything but the most basic of apps. Right now the focus of the entire organization is on getting NetBeans 6.8 out and supporting Java EE 6. It stands to reason that before we could do any transition to JSF 2.0 we first need to actually support JSF 2.0 and that's what the focus is on now. Once 6.8 is out we'll look at our existing UC plugins and decide in which order they should be updated for 6.8."
    16:45:48Annabel Melongo: Ok, thanks for the update
    16:46:05Jiří Kovalský: Regarding the poll, I am afraid that it could upset people if we organize such research and then do nothing. Right now we really don't know what our organisation is going to look like post-Oracle so it's impossible to tell what our priorities will be by then.
    16:46:27… Thanks for your understanding folks!
    16:46:36Annabel Melongo: Sure, I understand.
    16:46:45Jiří Kovalský: OK, so next issue?
    16:47:32Annabel Melongo: My next issue is this: http://netbeans.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=170231 I think it's more a netfix one than an actually issue. What do you think?
    16:48:17Jiří Kovalský: As for the overall support for exclusion of packages/classes in the IDE (#170231) it's probably not a huge effort to implement the feature but it affects several NetBeans areas (Code Completion in Editor, Fix Imports in Refactoring, Task List etc.). Unfortunately this was obviously not a priority for 6.8 release. I assume that most probably due to low resources again. Where does this request come from Annabel?
    16:48:46… Having said that I am really afraid that it is not a NetFIX issue given its complexity.
    16:49:26Annabel Melongo: I have it in my pool of nb-issues, do you want the nabble link? Let me check...
    16:50:32Jiří Kovalský: Yes, it looks like noone knows about this issue. :-)
    16:50:47Annabel Melongo: Here's the link: http://www.nabble.com/How-are-dependencies-handled-in-Module-projects-to24885022.html#a24924545
    16:50:54Jiří Kovalský: In other words how many people stand behind it?
    16:51:41Annabel Melongo: I was rather a discussion on the feature than people actually standing for it.
    16:52:36Jiří Kovalský: OK, I have talked to Jesse Glick about it and I also asked Rastislav Komara but he didn't reply to me so far.
    16:52:59… It's Rastislav's issue now so once he responds I will inform you, OK?
    16:53:10Annabel Melongo: Great...
    16:53:29Jiří Kovalský: Cool, anything else for today? We are running out of time...
    16:53:48Annabel Melongo: I have one more remark...
    16:53:50Tushar Joshi: can we accelerate the integration of http://netbeans.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=105236 even if it is P5 it is a defect in NB
    16:54:07Jiří Kovalský: Looking at it...
    16:54:46… Ok, thanks. I will push Jiri Skrivanek to integrate it. :-)
    16:54:55Tushar Joshi: Thanks :) Jiri
    16:55:06Michel Graciano: we have several NetFIX issues to be integrated yet
    16:55:39Jiří Kovalský: Yes, I know. Unfortunately, I have less time for other programs now that NetCAT has started.
    16:55:53Michel Graciano: Yes, I know that
    16:56:01Jiří Kovalský: But I will put it into my Rachota Timetracker and will try to work on it next week.
    16:56:16… Annabel, what did you want to remark?
    16:56:21Annabel Melongo: When struggling with the ide today, I click on the 'wiki' and 'details' links and they didn't point to the right page... Can you have this updated?
    16:57:11Jiří Kovalský: Do you mean 6.8 dev builds?
    16:57:40Annabel Melongo: No, our Kenai nbvoc links?
    16:58:32Jiří Kovalský: I still don't get it. Can you give me an example?
    16:58:51Annabel Melongo: Can we do this in the mailing list?
    16:59:06Jiří Kovalský: Sure.
    16:59:17… Is that everything Annabel?
    16:59:25Annabel Melongo: nope...
    16:59:38Jiří Kovalský: OK, send the broken links issue to our list later.
    16:59:48… Tushar, do you have anything for today?
    16:59:53Tushar Joshi: no
    16:59:59… I am done
    17:00:10Jiří Kovalský: I see. And Michel, what about you?
    17:00:12Michel Graciano: nothing from my side today too
    17:00:21Jiří Kovalský: Wow, so open mic now.
    17:01:01… Anybody wants to ask a last minute question or comment on something?
    17:01:16Annabel Melongo: nothing on my side..
    17:01:51… Have a great time Mr. ALWAYS ON VACATION... :(
    17:02:00Michel Graciano: :)
    17:02:49Tushar Joshi: All the best from my side also
    17:02:49Jiří Kovalský: Thank you Ms. ALWAYS READY TO HELP... :-)
    17:03:13… Thanks everyone for joining us today and as usually enjoy your weekends!
    17:03:22Michel Graciano: Enjoy your weekend!
    17:03:25Annabel Melongo: Really funny...Have a nice week-end all of you
    17:03:25Michel Graciano: see you soon
    17:03:32Jiří Kovalský: Bye bye.


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