Transcript of Voice of Community chat

Topic: VOC meeting #11
Date: June 19th, 2009
Time: 4:00 PM Central European Time
Duration: 1 hour
Chat client: NetBeans (Chat Window)
Participants:
  • Tushar Joshi (India)
  • Jiri Kovalsky (Czech Republic)
  • Michel Graciano (Brazil)

  • Agenda:
    1. Update: 6.7 FCS status [Jiri, 5 minutes]
    2. Discussion: Suggestions for VOC issue categories @ Kenai [Tushar, Michel - 15 minutes]
    3. Discussion: Outstanding potential VOC issues [Tushar, Michel - 35 minutes]
    4. Q&A [all, 5 minutes]

    Minutes:

  • Jiri informed the team about latest 6.7 FCS status and results from CA survey.
  • Team discussed proposals for issue categories that will be tracked in our Kenai project. 3 categories were selected: follow (thread or with sb.), test (simulate reported problem) and investigate (some technology).
  • Tushar brought #89894 (word wrapping) again - unfortunately no promising news about this.
  • Michel complained about slow "Go to File" navigation feature and promised to send more details.
  • Action items:

  • Michel to provide exact investigations about his performance problems. Plus ask for permission to share his project with NetBeans team.
  • Jiri to make sure #134990 is considered for 6.8 plans.
  • Jiri to contact Marcos Oliveira (plugin verifier candidate) one more time and then ask the other candidate.
  • Transcript:

    June 19, 20095:00 PM
    jkovalsky5:00 PM
    So, hello guys! How are you today?
    Let me welcome you to today's VOC chat #11.
    hmichel5:01 PM
    Hi JIri
    jkovalsky5:02 PM
    Are you Tushar listening? Ehm, reading?
    OK, looks like Tushar is busy. Let's start anyway. He can read it later.
    First of all, if you are interested in the latest status of 6.7 we decided to postpone planned release date from June 22 to June 29 i.e. by a week.
    This is to incorporate some feedback from the Community Acceptance survey and hopefully fix few more issues.
    We believe that community will appreciate it. I am going to approach selected respondents tonight and ask them for their updated opinion of the latest RC candidate.
    We will at least know what to include in the 6.7 Patch 1.
    Any questions so far?
    hmichel5:06 PM
    Not from me and good to know that
    jkovalsky5:06 PM
    BTW, I have closed the survey and results are already published [1].
    [1] http://qa.netbeans.org/processes/cat/67/ca_results.html
    Good news is that NetBeans 6.7 received Go from community per definition since no bug was mentioned by at least 20% of respondents.
    On the other hand the results are worse than for 6.5. You know we are operating only with less than 2/3 of the original staff and still trying to accommodate the restructuring.
    It would be great if you could explain that to community if you see some discussions on mailing lists/blogs/social networks etc.
    Any comments on this?
    hmichel5:08 PM
    I see
    any news about it that we find you will know, don't worry
    tusharvjoshi5:08 PM
    Hi
    jkovalsky5:09 PM
    Hello Tushar.
    tusharvjoshi5:09 PM
    So have we started, already, please proceed...
    jkovalsky5:10 PM
    I will also send an e-mail to NetCAT about the results.
    Yes, please read above.
    Let us know when you are done...
    tusharvjoshi5:10 PM
    ok reading...
    hmichel5:10 PM
    Jiri, about survey count
    we had more or less than 6.5 amount of answers?
    jkovalsky5:11 PM
    We had slightly less.
    hmichel5:12 PM
    ok, so your comment about results was worse than 6.5 is really important
    ok, keep going
    tusharvjoshi5:12 PM
    ok done reading... will keep eye on discussions and provide necessaryu info to them if needed (community questions about the survey)
    jkovalsky5:12 PM
    During 6.5 CA we had 173 respondents while now we reached only 144.
    I meant now we have slightly less.
    Besides, next week I am going to launch NetCAT satisfaction survey.
    Now, you had an AI from our last meeting, do you remember? We should define categories for issues we will be tracking in our Kenai project.
    So, who has some idea?
    tusharvjoshi5:16 PM
    Usually we do actions like 1. Contact somebody and get more info (contact) 2. Try simulate situation for bug (test)
    3. We follow up some topic (follow)
    We discuss about different areas like performance, defect, enhancement
    jkovalsky5:18 PM
    Yes. What's your take on this Michel?
    tusharvjoshi5:18 PM
    and also the technologies, I am just thinking loud
    hmichel5:19 PM
    we need action too or it is related to follow as suggested to tushar?
    jkovalsky5:21 PM
    So, one category would be "contact" (somebody), "test" (i.e. try to reproduce) but I don't understand "follow".
    hmichel5:22 PM
    maybe 'follow up'
    ou 'action'
    jkovalsky5:22 PM
    I would also recommend something like "investigate" - do you remember "Jira vs. BugZilla" AI?
    tusharvjoshi5:22 PM
    yes investigate is different than previous actions
    hmichel5:22 PM
    good to me too
    tusharvjoshi5:23 PM
    these are the types of tasks/actions we do, was this expected by category?
    jkovalsky5:23 PM
    Yes, I think so.
    So, Tushar, can you summarize it for us?
    tusharvjoshi5:24 PM
    By follow I meant to persue the topic till the end, I think contact includes this part also
    jkovalsky5:25 PM
    Yes, that's why I was confused.
    So, 2 or 1?
    tusharvjoshi5:25 PM
    So 1. contact 2. test 3. investigate
    I prefer follow to contact
    I mean I am for using follow word instead of contact
    jkovalsky5:26 PM
    OK. Anyway, this is can be changed or extended later.
    tusharvjoshi5:26 PM
    your opinion..
    hmichel5:26 PM
    no problelm for me
    I am not concerned about the names
    and the categories looks good for me at least now
    jkovalsky5:27 PM
    So, "follow" (thread or with sb.), "test" (simulate reported problem) and "investigate" (some technology).
    tusharvjoshi5:27 PM
    yes
    jkovalsky5:27 PM
    Did I get it right?
    hmichel5:28 PM
    yes
    jkovalsky5:28 PM
    OK, cool. I will setup the BugZilla categories later. Thanks. Hopefully, Annabel will not object.
    Great, so now let's discuss your findings during past two weeks. Do you have some hot VOC candidates guys?
    hmichel5:30 PM
    no issues for today, just one concern about Go to File
    tusharvjoshi5:30 PM
    As the NB 6.7 is reaching near release the issues are same
    I just want to mention two
    hmichel5:30 PM
    I see several concerns during 6.7 stabilization fase, and during some tests
    tusharvjoshi5:30 PM
    #89894 (word wrap) #134990 (scanning/performance)
    hmichel5:31 PM
    it looks really slow for huge projects
    tusharvjoshi5:31 PM
    The issue #134990 is all time hit issue of scanning which got a mention in survey also
    #89894 is actually an enhancement request but now getting popular at 87 votes
    oops we both were typing at same time (apologies)
    hmichel5:32 PM
    No problem. Jiri, about #89894, did you know how how complex it could be?
    maybe we can track this by NetFIX
    tusharvjoshi5:32 PM
    There is one discussion going on in nbusers for this
    jkovalsky5:32 PM
    OK, let's discuss Michel's issue first.
    tusharvjoshi5:33 PM
    ok
    hmichel5:33 PM
    good
    about this, there is no issue dedicated just about it
    jkovalsky5:33 PM
    Let me look at #89894.
    hmichel5:33 PM
    I need to track users needs before and file one issue just about Go to File
    Several comments about it was take inside several scanning issues
    but I really think we need improve the performance for this too
    personally, I prefer to navigate by Files view instead use Go to File feature many times
    jkovalsky5:35 PM
    OK, so "Word Wrapping feature has already been discussed here.
    tusharvjoshi5:35 PM
    http://forums.netbeans.org/topic13215.html
    this is the latest discussion on this issue #89894
    jkovalsky5:35 PM
    I think nothing changed with this since Editor will mainly be in bug fixing mode.
    So, no RFEs. And this one is actually not as trivial as it looks for the first sight.
    Thanks Tushar. I will read it.
    tusharvjoshi5:36 PM
    I agree and this feature is not yet in Eclipse, I think only IDEA has it
    jkovalsky5:36 PM
    As for the Go to File, I guess this is already fixed or do you Michel know about some overlooked case?
    tusharvjoshi5:37 PM
    This started getting noticed when Editors other than Java like HTML and XML started emerging
    hmichel5:38 PM
    @Jiri: My project, an huge free form project, take a lot of time to find files
    as I said, I will get details soon about it
    with some metrics that make possible understand what is going on
    but IMHO, Go to File must be so fast as Go to Type feature
    tusharvjoshi5:40 PM
    I agree here as for even JSP files and enterprize projects this is an imp feature
    jkovalsky5:40 PM
    Yes, we need some numbers like: # of classes, # of libraries, # of seconds it takes to open the project(s), # of seconds it takes to scan classpath and of course we would need the project.
    Have you seen Nigel Leck's videos?
    I think he confirmed that it has improved significantly.
    That's why we would need your scenario, project and snapshots.
    hmichel5:42 PM
    Yes, I know that
    this is really subjetive issue
    but just for one example
    jkovalsky5:42 PM
    Can you share it or does it contain some proprietary data?
    hmichel5:42 PM
    probably I can reproduce it with nb sources
    and here I am not sure I can share it, I need to get permission if it is really necessary
    jkovalsky5:43 PM
    Guys, this is really important. If you can reproduce some performance issue that community is complaining about, please help us!
    hmichel5:43 PM
    yes, we know that
    tusharvjoshi5:44 PM
    noted that Jiri, will always think in this way for issues
    jkovalsky5:44 PM
    We will delete your sources, once we reproduce it and fix your problem!
    OK, anything else Michel?
    hmichel5:45 PM
    I know this, but since in my case this is sources from an customer, I ned permission for this
    that is it
    no more for today
    jkovalsky5:47 PM
    OK, please ask about it. Nigel shared with us his 10k files project but was not allowed to send other 20k files projects from CitiBank.
    Great, so Tushar you wanted to talk about Word Wrapping and #134990.
    hmichel5:48 PM
    where can I found this video?
    jkovalsky5:48 PM
    Right?
    http://www.netbeans.org/nonav/issues/showattachment.cgi/83267/nb_scan.ogg
    http://www.netbeans.org/nonav/issues/showattachment.cgi/83269/nb_scan-6.5.ogg
    tusharvjoshi5:48 PM
    I just wanted to mention them here, I know one is RFE and second is old issue but as it received status of show stopper from CA survey
    jkovalsky5:49 PM
    I see. Let me share with you our plan.
    We are aware of more issues like this. Unfortunately, we are afraid of regressions caused by integrating fragile fixes so late in the release cycle.
    Hence we want to fix that in trunk (or branch) ASAP and test consequences for several weeks and then release Patch 1 quickly.
    http://wiki.netbeans.org/NB67CABugsEvaluation contains which bugs are planned for this update.
    hmichel5:53 PM
    (the video is about Go to Type, my point was about Go to File)
    just one last late comment
    jkovalsky5:54 PM
    Sure, no problem. Record your own with Go to File and send us your project! Next day you will be our hero.
    hmichel5:55 PM
    Go to Type is pretty fast here
    jkovalsky5:56 PM
    You didn't mention that slow Go to File issue in the CA survey Michel, did you?
    hmichel5:58 PM
    no, I just 'noted' it after that
    to be more specific
    yesterday this kind of thing was pretty hard here
    since I needed to work with a lot of files (non java classes)
    jkovalsky6:00 PM
    Hm, thanks for bringing this here guys. I will escalate it further and monitor that there is a progress.
    I also wanted to thank Michel for sending me his 2 candidates for plugin testers.
    I have contacted one (Marcos Oliveira) but he still didn't reply.
    Are you in touch with him Michel?
    hmichel6:02 PM
    not so much recently
    I think he is really busy
    I can't see he online for some time now
    Paulo is available for these days, I talked with him about another issues
    I will ask Marcos about the contact
    jkovalsky6:03 PM
    In such case, don't you think the other guy is better since he has more free time?
    hmichel6:03 PM
    maybe, normally both are really active
    jkovalsky6:04 PM
    OK, I can ping Marcos again and note that if he does not reply next day I will contact other person.
    hmichel6:04 PM
    I can see that last message from Marcos was two weeks ago
    jkovalsky6:04 PM
    Oh...
    hmichel6:04 PM
    in pt_BR mailing list
    jkovalsky6:04 PM
    OK, any final questions guys?
    hmichel6:05 PM
    no questions
    I hope now is time to lunch
    tusharvjoshi6:05 PM
    some thoughts on the chat tool we are using
    I couldnt find any option to save this
    jkovalsky6:06 PM
    Hm, yes. I am selecting this via Ctrl+A, copying via Ctrl+C and pasting this to editor via Ctrl+V.
    tusharvjoshi6:06 PM
    and one more thing to share, I am currently using Mac OS X, Windows XP and Ubuntu all for one project each with NetBeans 6.7 RC3
    i mean seperate projects which are my pet projects
    so I will get to test NB on three platforms while working
    hmichel6:07 PM
    :-)
    jkovalsky6:07 PM
    Great, that's platforms we are testing on too. http://wiki.netbeans.org/NB67TestedPlatformAndRuntimes
    So, if there are no more comments I wish Michel "Bon apetite" and Tushar "Good night".
    Enjoy your weekends!
    hmichel6:09 PM
    For you too guys
    see you soon
    bye
    tusharvjoshi6:09 PM
    Happy Weekend
    jkovalsky6:09 PM
    And thanks for helping us!
    Bye


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