Transcript of Voice of Community chat

Topic: VOC meeting #10
Date: June 5th, 2009
Time: 4:00 PM Central European Time
Duration: 1 hour
Chat client: Skype
Participants:
  • Tushar Joshi (India)
  • Melongo Annabel (USA)
  • Jiri Kovalsky (Czech Republic)
  • Michel Graciano (Brazil)

  • Agenda:
    1. Update: NetBeans 6.7 RC2 status [Jiri, 5 minutes]
    2. Update: VOC project @ Kenai [Jiri, 10 minutes]
    3. Request: 1 plugin tester needed [Jiri, 5 minutes]
    4. Discussion: Outstanding potential VOC issues [Annabel, Tushar, Michel - 35 minutes]
    5. Q&A [all, 5 minutes]

    Minutes:

  • Jiri informed the team about latest 6.7 RC2 status.
  • VOC project was created in kenai.com, next VOC meeting via Chat Window in NetBeans
  • We need to replace Thomas Kellerer - plugin tester
  • Better ClearCase support (#150361, #134438, #135151) - no resources, VCS in maintenance mode during 6.8
  • If there is a need for tutorial, add it to the Wiki wishlist
  • ER diagram tool (#105075) - no resources, DB module in bug fixing mode during 6.8
  • Usable IDE during scanning (#133943) - accepted as VOC issue, planned for 6.8
  • Incorrect error badges (#121950) - accepted as VOC issue, however only reproducible cases can be fixed, help is needed
  • Interactive debugging Ruby console (#107761) - no resources, scripting languages without major development
  • Action items:

  • Annabel to send Jiri her username at kenai.com
  • Everyone to send proposals for issue components of VOC project at kenai.com
  • Everyone to think about potential candidate for new plugin tester & send name(s) till 6/12
  • Jiri to ask Erno Mononen about #107761
  • 16:00:26* Jiří Kovalský invited michel.graciano tusharvjoshi
    16:01:00Jiří Kovalský: Hi Annabel :-)
    16:01:17Tushar Joshi: Hi All
    16:01:18* Jiří Kovalský has changed the chat topic to "NetBeans Voice Of Community meeting #10"
    16:01:28Jiří Kovalský: Hi Tushar!
    16:01:30Michel Graciano: Hi people
    16:01:52Jiří Kovalský: Hello guys, welcome to VOC meeting #10! How are you doing today?
    16:02:22Michel Graciano: Fine at all, testing Google Chrome at Ubuntu right now
    16:02:29… :-D
    16:02:49Jiří Kovalský: Hm, interesting! Is it stable enough?
    16:03:23Michel Graciano: no, it is an early access version
    16:03:27… half implemented
    16:03:36… many features are not available yet
    16:03:38Annabel Melongo: Where are you? I was expecting a conversation....
    16:03:47Michel Graciano: but it is really fast
    16:03:49… :)
    16:03:56Jiří Kovalský: Oh, I see. We have many items on the agenda so let's kick off this meeting.
    16:04:04Michel Graciano: I agree
    16:04:17Annabel Melongo: hi there
    16:04:35Jiří Kovalský: First of all I am sure you are interested in some details about 6.7 Release Candidate 2. I have good news because the bits are being uploaded as we speak and it will be soon publicly available.
    16:04:43… We still track some showstoppers but these will be most probably fixed in RC3 or waived. Any questions?
    16:05:06Annabel Melongo: no
    16:05:20* Tushar Joshi disconnected
    16:05:39Michel Graciano: good to know
    16:05:43… really good news
    16:05:56Jiří Kovalský: :-) Oops, we lost Tushar. :-(
    16:06:21… OK. Now, some news about VOC project at kenai.com. I have created the project last Friday and it's here: http://kenai.com/projects/nbvoc
    16:06:31… Are you guys registered at kenai.com? Please give me your usernames and I will add you to the project.
    16:06:44Michel Graciano: hmichel
    16:06:54Jiří Kovalský: What else I could expect... :-)
    16:07:04Annabel Melongo: I haven't yet
    16:07:21Jiří Kovalský: Never mind, please register and let me know. OK?
    16:08:00Annabel Melongo: fine
    16:08:05Jiří Kovalský: I also have one action item for all of us. We must define suitable Bugzilla components. Please think about it and send your proposal(s) via e-mail, OK? I meant something like: ask_community, reproduce_bug, fix_bug or e-mail, bug, blog, web or only action_item etc. What do you think?
    16:08:45Annabel Melongo: ok
    16:09:15* Tushar Joshi is online
    16:09:20Jiří Kovalský: Great, so let's have our next meeting back in NetBeans! :-)
    16:09:41Tushar Joshi: I got disconnected for a while
    16:09:55Jiří Kovalský: Yes, we noticed. Recap for you:
    16:09:59Michel Graciano: Really good to know that Jiri
    16:10:21Jiří Kovalský: - there is a VOC project setup in kenai.com: http://kenai.com/projects/nbvoc
    16:11:02… Please send me your username @ kenai.com and I will add you to the project so that we can have a talk next time via Chat Room feature built in NetBeans again! :-)
    16:11:24… AI: We must define suitable Bugzilla components. Please think about it and send your proposal(s) via e-mail, OK? I meant something like: ask_community, reproduce_bug, fix_bug or e-mail, bug, blog, web or only action_item etc.
    16:11:39… Is everything clear Tushar?
    16:11:43Tushar Joshi: yes
    16:11:46Jiří Kovalský: Thanks.
    16:12:09… Any questions regarding this so far?
    16:12:17Annabel Melongo: nope
    16:12:22Michel Graciano: that is ok so far
    16:12:30Tushar Joshi: I think the username on Kenai is same as Sun account id , hence mine is tusharvjoshi
    16:12:45Jiří Kovalský: Fine. Next item is a call for your help with finding a replacement for Thomas Kellerer who decided to resign from being a Plugin Tester. It must be an approachable person with some spare time who would periodically monitor incoming plugin verification requests and certify them in NB and decide if they can be published on Plugin Portal Update Center or not. FYI, in May we received 13 requests and in April only 6. Do you know some apt candidate from community?
    16:13:01… @Tushar: you are probably right. I will try that. Thanks.
    16:14:27Annabel Melongo: What do you mean apt? Someone actively answering questions or a GOOD tester?
    16:15:43Michel Graciano: I will try to ask about it to some known people
    16:15:54Jiří Kovalský: I mean somebody who has suitable skills like: familiar with NetBeans (i.e. not beginner), seems to have some spare time :-) and likes helping others.
    16:16:13Michel Graciano: but which is the definition about 'testing plugin'?
    16:16:31… do you mean, just install without any error?
    16:16:33Jiří Kovalský: BTW, Michel expressed last week that he would be willing to try that ... ;-)
    16:16:45Michel Graciano: :)
    16:16:49Annabel Melongo: Wendy Bossoms, Manfred Riem, Thomas Wolf, Futaleufu are the few I know who are really active....
    16:17:06Jiří Kovalský: @Michel: I mean this: http://wiki.netbeans.org/PluginPortalQualityCriteria
    16:17:56… Great, none of them is NetCAT 6.7 participant.
    16:18:06Michel Graciano: thanks
    16:18:33Jiří Kovalský: I mean, I don't want few people do everything. Like you guys: VOC, NetFIX, NetCAT ...
    16:18:49Michel Graciano: I agree
    16:18:52Annabel Melongo: also Jess Holle is a good candidate
    16:18:53Jiří Kovalský: I prefer having more people doing different things.
    16:19:06Michel Graciano: I will tr to talk with some people from pt_BR community
    16:19:10Jiří Kovalský: Hm, are you sure Jess would like to do that?
    16:19:10Michel Graciano: if someone is available
    16:20:00Jiří Kovalský: OK, great. Please send your candidates to voc@netbeans.org list by next Friday. OK?
    16:20:22Michel Graciano: ok, I will try to see what is possible
    16:20:44Jiří Kovalský: So, is next Friday doable? Thomas resigned already 2 weeks ago...
    16:21:25… I need the replacement ASAP.
    16:21:47Annabel Melongo: Do you want us to contact them? or are you going to do so?
    16:23:18Jiří Kovalský: No, I only ask you to bring here the names. We will prioritize them, create a list and then we will contact them from #1 down. If #1 accepts then we are done.
    16:23:39… Who will approach them is secondary...
    16:23:44… Clear?
    16:23:50Annabel Melongo: ok.
    16:23:52Michel Graciano: yes
    16:23:55Tushar Joshi: got it
    16:24:22Jiří Kovalský: Thanks for your help in advance!
    16:24:35Annabel Melongo: But we can't do that in VOC though, some of them might be registered there...
    16:25:10Jiří Kovalský: What do you mean?
    16:25:44Annabel Melongo: Some of them might be monitoring that list... Do you have the list of people registered?
    16:26:16… If would be so funny if we discuss about someone and the person actually is monitoring the exchange
    16:27:11Jiří Kovalský: Hm, I don't think such level of confidentiality is necessary.
    16:27:19… What do other guys think?
    16:27:35Michel Graciano: I have no problems about it
    16:27:47Jiří Kovalský: Except 4 of us 2 more people are subscribed in this list.
    16:28:03Tushar Joshi: I think if we are talking about a person and he has interest he may reply or just say he has no time, that will accelerate the process even more
    16:28:03Annabel Melongo: ok then
    16:28:31Jiří Kovalský: Yes. So Annabel let's discuss your VOC issue candidates first.
    16:29:56… Annabel?
    16:30:07Annabel Melongo: The first one is about Clearcase. Actually someone complaints yesterday about it and I asked for further clarifications and I hadn't got any answer. So I when to clearcase and I chose the two issues that might be showstoppers: namly the fact the clearcase isn't found even though installed and the fact that there's no diff feature...
    16:30:33#150361 #134438 #135151
    16:30:48Jiří Kovalský: OK, let me answer that.
    16:31:01150361 - I don't believe this is a real VOC issue, sorry. 16 dups via Exception Reporter with last from October 2008. #134438 - I fixed as worksforme. Again report from October 2008 and no more information was provided. #135151 - it's a nice RFE but ClearCase as part of VCS will be in maintenance mode during 6.8 development, sorry.
    16:31:59… Objections?
    16:32:19… Speak up now or keep your silence forever. :-)
    16:32:21Annabel Melongo: the 15061, the developer asked for more explanations but they were not provided; that's why the case was closed. It wasn't closed because it was fixed
    16:32:50… Sorry #134438
    16:33:15Jiří Kovalský: Yes, I closed it because of no info.
    16:33:22… That's valid process.
    16:33:30… Let's go on.
    16:34:14Annabel Melongo: The next issue is about adding in issuezilla a way someone can ask for a tutorial request and the request is then voted, if more votes, then that tutorial is created
    16:34:38… some asked for the possibility, that's why I added it as a valid issue
    16:34:38Jiří Kovalský: Where do you have this request from?
    16:34:54Annabel Melongo: I have it from nbusers
    16:35:47… I can sent you the nabble link later on... I don't have it ready
    16:36:18Jiří Kovalský: OK, the only thing I can advice in this case is to file issue against www/documentation and then let me know. http://netbeans.org/bugzilla/enter_bug.cgi?component=www&subcomponent=documentation
    16:36:36… I will discuss it with our web master.
    16:36:54… Let's move to the next issue.
    16:37:33… Hey, wait a second!
    16:37:54… Rollback my answer. The wishlist already exists here: http://wiki.netbeans.org/CommunityDocs_Wishlist
    16:38:03… So, suggest that person to only add it. :-)
    16:39:06Annabel Melongo: The next issue is about ER diagram that's supported in JDeveloper but not in NB. Since we're now an Oracle company, I thought it's about time to take the implementation seriously: #105075
    16:39:33Jiří Kovalský: Regarding #105075 - sorry again but the DB module will be in bug fixing mode only. Don't you Annabel want to turn to NetFIX team instead? I am sure these guys prefer developing new features over bug fixing. However, if somebody implements it, s/he must also guarantee bug fixing in current & next release otherwise it won't get into the standard distribution.
    16:39:40… Next issue?
    16:40:01Michel Graciano: do you have the doc about JDeveloper against this feature?
    16:40:20Jiří Kovalský: That's a question for me?
    16:40:25… No I don't have it. :-)
    16:40:44Michel Graciano: for anyone
    16:40:44Annabel Melongo: @michel to whom to you address this question?
    16:41:30… The next issue is about an issue that was already closed but reappeared, I guess, you would treat this as a bug also #119617
    16:42:04Michel Graciano: it is not an severe question, just to gain some time against googling about it
    16:42:18Jiří Kovalský: :-)
    16:42:42Annabel Melongo: The last issue is a consequence of the ever increasing scanning issue: #133943
    16:43:05… Developers want to be able to work when the scanning is taking place
    16:43:22Jiří Kovalský: Hm, yes. I remember this.
    16:43:58Michel Graciano: yes, I see that many issues against this subject are addressed to 6.8 by Vita
    16:44:22Jiří Kovalský: Correct. As you can see this one has Target Milestone set to 6.8.
    16:44:56Michel Graciano: there is one issue about IDE generate the cache during installation or distribute it with instalattion
    16:45:09Jiří Kovalský: I think I can help in this case. I will have a talk with David Strupl (Editor team manager) and stress this one for 6.8
    16:45:32Michel Graciano: it would be really important for nb.next
    16:45:35Jiří Kovalský: 6.8 will focus on Editor stabilization and this fits perfectly into the plans.
    16:45:59Tushar Joshi: That will be really good as this scanning issue is stretched since many days
    16:46:00Jiří Kovalský: And it's sooo important that we have Nigel's project!
    16:46:22… Two developers are already investigating that...
    16:46:36… So, let's hope it will help. Thank you Annabel!
    16:46:50Annabel Melongo: you're welcome
    16:47:01Jiří Kovalský: Next guy is Tushar.
    16:47:08… The floor is yours.
    16:47:19Tushar Joshi: I have no issues for this meeting, this time.
    16:47:33Jiří Kovalský: OK, so Michel.
    16:48:05Michel Graciano: I have no issues for today
    16:48:11… in the truth
    16:48:13… I had one
    16:48:17… right now
    16:48:20… just one minute
    16:48:48#121950
    16:48:58… just two concerns about it
    16:49:04Jiří Kovalský: Sure. In the meantime I have to confess I don't want to know how many issues you Annabel would bring if I didn't ask you to be conservative. ;-)
    16:49:50… Oh, error badges again.
    16:50:01Michel Graciano: first of all, this was just moved from component
    16:50:16… and the votes was removed
    16:50:21… :(
    16:50:35… and... the target was defined to TBD
    16:50:43Jiří Kovalský: That's never ending story. Hm, who reassigned that?
    16:51:11Michel Graciano: I know that this us an umbrella, but it should be addressed to nb.next
    16:51:17… mmirilovic moved it
    16:52:13… so, that is it
    16:52:32… just to be careful about this kind of thing
    16:52:44Annabel Melongo: I forgot an issue, the ruby interactive debugger: #107761
    16:53:19Jiří Kovalský: Michel, this issue was already mentioned as stopper by one NetCAT 6.7 participant in the CA survey.
    16:53:44Michel Graciano: :)
    16:53:53Jiří Kovalský: We will focus on this in 6.8 but we can only fix reproducible scenarios. :-(
    16:54:06Michel Graciano: I think it is not an really stopper, but should be addressed
    16:54:10… I agree with you
    16:54:18… I know how hard is it to reproduce
    16:54:44Jiří Kovalský: However, I had a talk about it with Marian Mirilovic 1/2 hour ago and he confirmed that it contains couple of reproducible scenarios.
    16:55:04… OK. #107761 now/
    16:55:25Michel Graciano: I had this problem for some people here too, but we can't reproduce it consistently
    16:55:37… about error badge
    16:56:30Jiří Kovalský: Sure, if you see it, write down what you did before. Once you compile 10 occurences maybe you will discover some pattern...
    16:57:50… Re: #107761, to be honest I doubt that would be addressed in 6.8. No substantial development is planned for scripting languages.
    16:58:51… I can ask Erno Mononen though just to be sure he does not want to take this as a weekend project. :-)
    16:59:04… Anything else for today?
    16:59:14Michel Graciano: not from me I guess
    16:59:15… :)
    16:59:16Annabel Melongo: I don't understand; you were bought by Oracle which has a lot of cash; why can't you not rehire to fill all the vacancies?
    16:59:37Jiří Kovalský: Annabel, you are seriously mistaken.
    16:59:45… 1. We were not bought yet.
    16:59:55… 2. Oracle has its own Java IDE.
    17:00:12… 3. NetBeans does not generate revenue.
    17:00:35… Do you think Oracle will keep both IDEs and even invest more into NetBeans dev team?
    17:01:01Annabel Melongo: yes, I think so; you just have to do better what they're now doing....
    17:02:22… That's why I always stress to get involved in things like ER Diagram and Weblogic but you always throw cold water on such suggestions...
    17:02:51Michel Graciano: we will know the future just after the merge... probably the teams will be merged
    17:02:57Jiří Kovalský: It would cost a lot of time. Our strategy is to focus on things that would support our HW and drive revenue indirectly.
    17:03:12Michel Graciano: but as all fusions, it takes time
    17:03:14Jiří Kovalský: Well, maybe.
    17:05:02Michel Graciano: it is reallt hard to know
    17:05:14… which are the Oracle strategies
    17:05:40Jiří Kovalský: OK, I am sorry I don't have better news but that's reality. Unless community does not help we can do only what fits to overall strategy.
    17:06:04… does not help -> helps :-)
    17:06:25Michel Graciano: but revenue the NB project is an good strategy
    17:06:38Jiří Kovalský: I think so.
    17:06:53Michel Graciano: give back investiments make all managers happy
    17:06:59… always
    17:07:01… :)
    17:07:03Jiří Kovalský: BTW, as for my action items from the last meeting, none of the 4 issues can be addressed now but we will consider them when planning 6.8. If they fit to high level plans, I will discuss them with Martin Balin (6.8 release boss). Martin is in fact my boss. ;-)
    17:07:44… I hope you are not too much frustrated Annabel. :-)
    17:07:57… Any closing thoughts for today?
    17:08:13Annabel Melongo: Not at all. Just to be curious, do you any plan B if Oracle throws you out.
    17:08:33Jiří Kovalský: You mean NB team or me personally?
    17:09:00Annabel Melongo: NB of course... who cares about you? :D
    17:09:08Jiří Kovalský: :-D
    17:10:39… Well, I have heard some plans, that if NB project does not receive Oracle's support, developers could fork the source, create again netbeans.com private company.
    17:10:42… ;-)
    17:11:18… That's the only way how to keep the project going forward.
    17:12:13Michel Graciano: good to know
    17:12:15Jiří Kovalský: On the other hand it's not easy task to hire tens of experienced Java developers in short time. So laying off everybody seems irrational.
    17:13:01… The question is if community would still contribute and would be willing to pay for plugins or some Enterprise Edition. :-)
    17:13:33… But I would like to stress out that all this are pure speculations! :-)
    17:13:43Annabel Melongo: Great. Good to know...
    17:13:50Michel Graciano: Sure
    17:13:55Jiří Kovalský: So, are we done for today?
    17:14:04Michel Graciano: I think so
    17:14:04Tushar Joshi: Hope for good future to NB
    17:14:14Jiří Kovalský: Thank you Tushar!
    17:14:16Michel Graciano: thanks for clarifications anyway
    17:14:21Annabel Melongo: Yes. Thanks everybody. Have a nice weekend
    17:14:31Jiří Kovalský: You too. Thanks for coming today.
    17:14:41Michel Graciano: For you too
    17:15:04Jiří Kovalský: And your feedback. Don't forget about VOC Bugzilla component suggestions and plugin tester candidates.
    17:15:10Jiří Kovalský: ETA: next Friday.
    17:15:21… Bye Captains!
    17:15:24Annabel Melongo: bye
    17:15:28Michel Graciano: bye


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