Transcript of Voice of Community chat

Topic: VOC meeting #9
Date: May 15th, 2009
Time: 4:00 PM Central European Time
Duration: 1 hour
Chat client: Skype
  • Tushar Joshi (India)
  • Melongo Annabel (USA)
  • Jiri Kovalsky (Czech Republic)
  • Michel Graciano (Brazil)

  • Agenda:
    1. Update: NetBeans 6.7 status [Jiri, 5 minutes]
    2. Review: AIs from last meeting [All, 10 minutes]
    3. Discussion: Outstanding potential VOC issues [Annabel, Tushar, Michel - 40 minutes]
    4. Q&A [all, 5 minutes]


  • Jiri informed the team about latest 6.7 status.
  • In order to fix #161367 we need projects reproducing this issue. Please help!
  • Team revisited all pending action items from previous VOC chat
  • Tushar: people are complaining about classpath scanning problems, leaving Schliemann in favour of new language infrastructure.
  • Annabel: community wants Weblogic support in 6.5.1 but there is no owner for this functionality.
  • Action items:

  • Annabel wants to cooperate with users facing #161367 to find some helpful information.
  • Michel to decide destination for updated TODO plugin.
  • VOC captains to help users find reproducible scenarios for their problems.
  • Jiri to ask Milan Kubec about #46886.
  • Jiri to ask web development team about #48465.
  • Jiri to ask Petr Hejl about #123169 and #152937.
  • 16:00:18* Jiří Kovalský invited annabel.melongo
    16:00:21* Jiří Kovalský invited tusharvjoshi
    16:00:59Jiri Kovalsky: Hi people!
    16:01:19Michel Graciano: Hi
    16:01:31Tushar Joshi: Hi
    16:01:50Annabel Melongo: hi
    16:02:02Jiri Kovalsky: How are you? :-)
    16:02:08Annabel Melongo: fine
    16:02:34Michel Graciano: Happy for one more weekend
    16:02:36… :)
    16:02:39Tushar Joshi: good
    16:02:42Jiri Kovalsky: Great, thanks for joining us today. Let's not waste time and kick-off this meeting.
    16:02:52… In the first place I wanted to give you update on current status of 6.7 release.
    16:03:04… So, in short NetBeans 6.7 codebase has only 1 week to Code Freeze which is planned for May 22nd.
    16:03:11… Our goal is to have RC1 out in early June.
    16:03:21… As for the quality, number of P3 bugs is successfully decreasing with exception of Editor which is over boundary because Editor team is focused on fixing P2s.
    16:03:37… Unfortunately, there is no major improvement in P2 bugs in general. Luckily, income of high priority NetCAT bugs dropped significantly during last week. :-)
    16:03:53Michel Graciano: :)
    16:04:33Jiri Kovalsky: For your information, there is an effort to turn on last new feature: Kenai chat built-in support. It will be sanity checked hopefully over weekend and I am going to ask NetCAT team for a fast track test as soon as it's live.
    16:04:43… Based on the users feedback the decision will be made on Wednesday whether it will stay in 6.7 FCS or not.
    16:04:49… That's all I have regarding the status. Any questions?
    16:05:17Annabel Melongo: what about the scanning issue?
    16:05:37Jiri Kovalsky: Yes, I also promised more information regarding #161367 so here it is. I discussed this with Vitezslav Stejskal and he told me that he desperately needs a project or more that reliably reproduce that never ending classpath scanning.
    16:05:44… Having such a project would directly lead to fixing that bug. Also message.log might help in case RepositoryUpdater logging is switched on.
    16:05:50… Thread dumps are not useful here since they don't explain what triggered the indexing. BTW, issue #164745 does not block #161367 but "nleck" user ignores Jan Lahoda's explanation why.
    16:05:58… So, if you want to help VOC become famous and respected among community, find a project reproducing this. :-)
    16:06:23… Any brave taker here? ;-)
    16:08:00Michel Graciano: all projects we faced it are just working now
    16:08:12… probably fixed for some another scanning issue
    16:08:14Jiri Kovalsky: I know Michel.
    16:08:53Annabel Melongo: Let me contact people complaining about this and see what we can reproduce. Ok?
    16:08:55Jiri Kovalsky: I informed our product management team about your positive experience.
    16:09:38… OK, but what we need is the project that reproduces that.
    16:10:09Annabel Melongo: I'll see what I can do. I will ask...
    16:10:46Jiri Kovalsky: Hopefully you will be able to motivate them for tight cooperation. :-) Any other questions or can we move on?
    16:11:03Tushar Joshi: One issue logged by me just became WONTFIX today, it was also related to scanning and freezing
    16:11:58Jiri Kovalsky: Is that the #164441?
    16:12:31Tushar Joshi: yes
    16:12:49Jiri Kovalsky: Yes, I am reading the justification right now...
    16:13:53Tushar Joshi: This means this is a loop hole in NB which will be left open, then we will have to document this case as not to be practiced, and needs IDE restart
    16:15:07Jiri Kovalsky: Hm, that's sad but I also consider this as not frequent usecase. Do you think this happens often Tushar?
    16:15:33Tushar Joshi: no i dont think this is frequently happening issue, I also encountered it accidentally
    16:15:54Jiri Kovalsky: OK.
    16:16:02Tushar Joshi: but this is a case which gets reproduced all the time by following that path
    16:16:37… so while adding libraries we can atleast do a validation check of whether a root is getting added
    16:16:47… but let us keep this discussion on that issue thread
    16:16:49… and proceed
    16:17:03Jiri Kovalsky: Exactly. Add your comments there. Thanks.
    16:17:22… OK, now let's discuss the action items from our last meeting.
    16:17:29… Annabel didn't have any assignment so I will start. I was expected to convince somebody to take a look at #157692 and voila it has been fixed by Jesse Glick! :-)
    16:17:39… Secondly, I had to investigate issue #134990 but since it was waived I at least added comment as promised here. :-\
    16:17:47… Now Michel, can you inform us on your progress with #96680 and #63953? I have seen that you patched the 2nd RFE, have you pushed the changes to repository already?
    16:18:30Michel Graciano: yes, the TODO plugin is fully functional
    16:18:41… even working at 6.5 and 6.7
    16:18:57… and I fixed an issue against this module too
    16:19:09Jiri Kovalsky: Hm, pretty good. So, what next steps do you plan?
    16:19:11Michel Graciano: and I will try to implement it for 6.8 asap
    16:19:27Jiri Kovalsky: Want to publish it on the Beta UC?
    16:19:41… Or prefer Plugin Portal?
    16:20:25Michel Graciano: I really have no preference, but I prefer the easier to update :D
    16:20:38… I think Beta UC is easier, right?
    16:20:49Jiri Kovalsky: I see. How often do you want to provide new binaries?
    16:21:01… Well, it depends.
    16:21:07Michel Graciano: always any problem or improviment should be done
    16:21:21… AFAIK it is already finalized
    16:21:33… now, just fixes will be done
    16:21:41Jiri Kovalsky: See
    16:22:06Michel Graciano: and all ideas will be implemented in an correct way for default distro
    16:22:50Jiri Kovalsky: Our community plugin verifiers are not as fast as we are but on the other hand we accept new binary twice a month at maximum.
    16:23:25… So it's up to you. What about the former issue #96680?
    16:23:46Michel Graciano: I have no time to think and right an definitive proposal yet
    16:23:58… I already have the ideas, but no much time to this yet
    16:24:01… :(
    16:24:24Jiri Kovalsky: OK, fair enough.
    16:24:40… Thanks Michel. Now Tushar. What about your good will to implement #13857? You are busy with netfixing #155143 and #136219, aren't you?
    16:25:30Tushar Joshi: About the copy rectangular areas issue, 13857 I have confirmed that the plugin Sandeep has created works with NB 6.5.1 and later also
    16:26:14… There is one known issue now which I have logged in the issue thread apart from that the plugin works and solves the problem, users are asking for a visual clue that is yet not available in the available plugin
    16:27:09… so after I am donw with the netfix items assigned to me I will have a look at the plugin developed by Sandeep, and will keep the discussion about how to fix the new visual clue feature going on
    16:27:56… My progress in the netfix items is very slow as I am very new to this source and also the process
    16:28:47Annabel Melongo: You bet.... it's taking me 2 weeks now only to figure out the ant!!!
    16:29:18Jiri Kovalsky: Re: #13857 I am glad that Miloslav Metelka seems to be supporting you.
    16:29:31Tushar Joshi: yes he has added his comment just some minutes ago
    16:30:55Jiri Kovalsky: I can certainly understand that Annabel. Also trying to find the project(s) reproducing #161367 will delay you as well.
    16:31:02… But it is really worth it.
    16:31:13… Great, we are done. So, now let's go quickly through community feedback. Is there any outstanding blog post, campaign on Twitter etc.?
    16:31:36Tushar Joshi: Most of the times it is about the scanning what I have seen
    16:31:59… there is a long thread about the Schielman project but people are now agreeing on shifting to the new mechanism
    16:32:07Jiri Kovalsky: Yes, it's very visible topic on NetCAT alias too.
    16:32:25… I meant the scanning. ;-)
    16:33:35… OK, so can we proceed to Annabel's issues?
    16:33:45Michel Graciano: sure :)
    16:33:48Tushar Joshi: sure
    16:33:53Annabel Melongo: ok
    16:34:41… This first issue has no entry yet in IZ but it has to do with weblogic: adding the server and creating support for NB 6.5+
    16:35:21… This is supposed to all happen in NB6.7M4? but right now, people are really getting crazy to have it in NB6.5+
    16:36:03Jiri Kovalsky: What do you mean? Anybody from community is working on weblogic plugin improvements?
    16:36:59… As I have already said before, this plugin [1] is not being even maintained. [1]
    16:37:15Annabel Melongo: I don't know; someone from Sun says it would be available... let me check the person's name
    16:37:38Jiri Kovalsky: Michal Mocnak did some fine tuning last time but he is not an owner.
    16:38:54Annabel Melongo: Yes it was Michal Mocnak. I forwarded you the email...
    16:38:55Jiri Kovalsky: And regarding the missing value in datasource pulldown, the support is not implemented which explains why the guy couldn't find it.
    16:39:01… OK, thanks.
    16:41:07… So, my pretty accurate answer is that nothing will change regarding Weblogic integration anytime soon.
    16:41:38Annabel Melongo: Just keep us in the loop then as soon as you get something, ok?
    16:42:10Jiri Kovalsky: OK. And frankly I don't understand why we should invest time to backporting something for 6.5.1 instead of motivating people to switch to 6.7. :-)
    16:42:30… Let's go to the next issue, ok?
    16:43:02Annabel Melongo: NB 6.7 isn't stable yet. People like stability...
    16:43:21… 1. Missing "deploy on change" tickbox funtionality. 2. Netbeans freezes after importing plugins: # Navigation operations (Go To Type/Source/Declaration/etc) are too slow * These all must be nearly instantaneous -- including opening the source file in the editor. # Project scanning disables too much functionality * One should be able to perform the vast majority of operations even while project scanning is being performed -- based on previous scan data where necessary (i.e. for items currently being scanned or yet to be scanned). * Allowing navigation (Go To Type/Source/Declaration,...) during scanning is absolutely critical. * Refactoring should give a warning but still be allowed during scanning. # Project scanning should be faster # No control over re-indexing/scanning of directories (for those who need to have a directory containing loose class files for various reasons)
    16:43:27Jiri Kovalsky: Yes, but FCS is planned soon...
    16:44:08Annabel Melongo: Sorry I typed when I shouldn't have. Any way, you have all the NB6.7 complaints and suggestions...
    16:44:31Jiri Kovalsky: Hm, that's very interesting but unfortunately very vague at the same time.
    16:45:10Annabel Melongo: What is vague in your opinion?
    16:45:17Jiri Kovalsky: For example all bugs like "navigation is too slow" are very good candidates for being closed.
    16:45:37… We need more information on usecase, setup, exact measurements, environment.
    16:47:15… I understand these statements express feelings but engineers are not wizards equipped with some magic that will diagnose these complaints and understand what is "slow" etc.
    16:47:32Annabel Melongo: ok, I'll try to get that information from those users
    16:47:34Michel Graciano: #165245
    16:47:49Jiri Kovalsky: Engineers must have discrete goals. Makes sense?
    16:47:50Michel Graciano: this should be related with some problems listed by Melongo
    16:48:46… related too (the first one is so close with what Melongo said)
    16:49:15… about make some operations available even during scanning]
    16:49:30Jiri Kovalsky: OK, if you approach them, please rather contact them privately and offer own help Annabel. Agree?
    16:50:23Annabel Melongo: Offer own help? How? They need some funtionalities on NB6.7 and how do I offer this?
    16:50:59… I can only contact them and ask to reproduce "technically" what they talk about...
    16:51:04Tushar Joshi: In my opinion making simulations and project environments reproducing the issues is necessary for their resolution and we should look for such data and try that, I am trying to make a project which will show the slow nature of the IDE , not successful yet but will keep trying
    16:51:52Jiri Kovalsky: Exactly Tushar! What I mean is to replicate their problems based on their investigations etc.
    16:52:28… The more people tries the higher probability is to find the reproducible bug & cause.
    16:53:28… BTW, thanks for reporting that issue #165170. Looks like Vitezslav knows what is the cause.
    16:54:05Annabel Melongo: next issue?
    16:54:08Jiri Kovalsky: Yes.
    16:55:35Annabel Melongo: The scanning issue might seem to be linked with this one, it's a proven truth yet, but it seems a higher probability:-Support for FreeForm project: #46886
    16:56:08… ** it's not a proven truth yet**
    16:56:44Jiri Kovalsky: I got it. :-) Are you sure that this is so serious? It has not been touched since 2006.
    16:57:23… I understand that it collected 12 votes over these 5 years but are people requesting this recently?
    16:58:02Annabel Melongo: yes it seems people with free-form projects are highly affected with scanning issues... that's why I decided to go for it; maybe solving that might solve the scanning issue...
    16:58:40Jiri Kovalsky: I doubt but I can have a talk with Milan Kubec about it. What's next?
    16:59:06Annabel Melongo: Refactoring should propagate through jsp's files: #48465
    17:00:10Jiri Kovalsky: Yes, this seems to be very popular and I remember this from NetCAT 5.0 already.
    17:01:02Annabel Melongo: next issue?
    17:01:18Jiri Kovalsky: Yes, I will take this again as an AI.
    17:02:28… But let me emphasize that we are stabilizing 6.7 now and plans for 6.8 must reflect the absolute priority #1 to monetize NB existence.
    17:03:21Annabel Melongo: The next is about Groovy; We don't have a debugging support and the test unit functionalities are missing as well. Groovy is a big novelty in the market now and it would be an advantage for NB to support it on all of its aspects:
    17:03:43… -Need for groovy debugging support: #123169 -Groovy Unit testing: #152937
    17:04:46Jiri Kovalsky: OK, thanks Annabel. I will discuss both issues with Petr Hejl if there is a chance to incorporate them into 6.8's plan of features.
    17:05:24… We are out of time so I quickly give the floor to Michel.
    17:05:27… Michel?
    17:05:42Michel Graciano: no issues for today
    17:06:07Jiri Kovalsky: Oh, great then. :-) Tushar?
    17:06:34Tushar Joshi: No Issues, as all of them are already discussed and the scanning was the only thing in mind
    17:07:06Jiri Kovalsky: Yes, I believe this really.
    17:07:17… So, any closing questions? ;-)
    17:07:23Annabel Melongo: When do you think you'll have the transcript ready?
    17:08:22… The reason I'm asking is for the scanning issue? To ask people for the code, I would need to send them to the transcript which will give me the "credentials" to ask such a thing...
    17:08:24Jiri Kovalsky: That's a tough question actually. If I don't do it over weekend, I will have time for it on Wednesday at the earliest.
    17:08:45… I see the point.
    17:08:51… I will do my best.
    17:09:06… Anything else today?
    17:09:19Michel Graciano: just take a rest this weekend :D
    17:09:41Annabel Melongo: ok, just do it as quickly as you can and let's know. I have nothing else. Thanks and have a nice week-end
    17:09:46Jiri Kovalsky: Hehe, you too folks! :-D
    17:10:03Michel Graciano: @melongo: you could answer user saing that soon the transcript will be available
    17:10:05Jiri Kovalsky: Thanks for your time and feedback!
    17:10:06Michel Graciano: ;)
    17:10:11Tushar Joshi: Have a nice weekend all :)
    17:10:13Michel Graciano: see you soon people
    17:10:23Jiri Kovalsky: OK, bye bye.
    17:10:41Tushar Joshi: Bye!
    17:10:44Annabel Melongo: bye
    17:10:44Michel Graciano: bye
    17:10:51* Michel Graciano left the chat.

    [ Homepage | List archive | Previous chat | Next chat ]

    Last Updated: June 10th, 2009

    Project Features

    About this Project

    QA was started in November 2009, is owned by Jiří Kovalský, and has 97 members.
    By use of this website, you agree to the NetBeans Policies and Terms of Use (revision 20160708.bf2ac18). © 2014, Oracle Corporation and/or its affiliates. Sponsored by Oracle logo
    Please Confirm