Transcript of Voice of Community chat

Topic: VOC meeting #8
Date: April 24th, 2009
Time: 4:00 PM Central European Time
Duration: 1 hour
Chat client: Skype
  • Tushar Joshi (India)
  • Melongo Annabel (USA)
  • Jiri Kovalsky (Czech Republic)
  • Michel Graciano (Brazil)

  • Agenda:
    1. Update: NetBeans 6.7 Beta [Jiri, 5 minutes]
    2. Request: Experience with JIRA [Jiri, 5 minutes]
    3. Next meeting: 5/15 on Skype [Jiri, 5 minutes]
    4. Discussion: Outstanding potential VOC issues [Annabel, Tushar, Michel - 40 minutes]
    5. Q&A [all, 5 minutes]


  • Jiri informed the team about latest 6.7 Beta status.
  • Next meeting will be held in Skype again on May 15th.
  • #96680 - GUI form module in maintenance i.e. nobody available to fix this.
  • #161367 - no intervention needed, being worked on.
  • #134990 - waived for 6.7, sorry.
  • #59019 - no resources, ideal for community contribution.
  • #79680 - no resources, sorry.
  • Action items:

  • Michel, Annabel & Tushar to investigate pros&cons of JIRA and send gathered feedback via e-mail within next 2 weeks.
  • Michel to come up with a proposal for #96680.
  • Jiri to talk to Petr Gebauer or Jesse Glick about #157692.
  • Jiri to ask Jan Jancura about #134990 + add comment about this meeting.
  • Michel to re-evaluate #63953.
  • Tushar to look at #13857 to NetFIX it.
  • 15:54:00* Michel Graciano invited cesilko_ tusharvjoshi
    16:01:47Michel Graciano Hi people
    16:02:22Jiri Kovalsky Hello, I have just invited you to another chat. :-)
    16:02:35* Jiří Kovalský has changed the chat topic to "NetBeans Voice Of Community meeting #8"
    16:02:14Tushar Joshi Hi
    16:02:53Jiri Kovalsky Annabel, are you listening?
    16:02:54Michel Graciano :)
    16:03:14Annabel Melongo yes
    16:03:19Jiri Kovalsky Great!
    16:03:34Tushar Joshi so we continue here now...
    16:03:55Jiri Kovalsky Yes, wait a second...
    16:04:43… So, hello team! Welcome to today's Voice Of Community meeting.
    16:04:50… We have full agenda so let's get started.
    16:05:05… In the beginning I just wanted to give you an update on NetBeans 6.7 Beta. Although our original intention was to release on Monday, this date turned out to be unrealistic because of missing license and too many showstoppers.
    16:05:21… Hence we will be most probably releasing on Tuesday next week if no serious defects show up and QE department certifies the Beta candidate.
    16:05:28… Any questions concerning this matter?
    16:05:49Michel Graciano just good to know
    16:05:59… for me, daily builds are really stable now
    16:06:12Jiri Kovalsky Hm, shame that I don't see any flag whether you are writing or not. :-(
    16:06:40… Glad to hear that Michel. I know last week was quite opposite. ;-)
    16:06:47Tushar Joshi no questions from me, and I can see who is writing on Windows machine
    16:07:18Jiri Kovalsky Oh really? I am on Ubuntu so maybe my Skype client is not equipped with the same functionality.
    16:07:20Michel Graciano on Linux, no indication about writing... and yes, now my showstopper was solved and I am back to 6.7
    16:07:32Jiri Kovalsky OK, another item on the agenda is actually a task for you. We have already discussed design flaws of NetBeans IssueZilla here before, do you remember?
    16:07:32Michel Graciano I had the same issue as Jiri
    16:07:48Jiri Kovalsky As you might know BugZilla is not the only alternative available on the market. There are other options like JIRA [1] from Atlassian. [1]
    16:07:58… Now, what we need. Could each of you try to look around a bit and gather some opinions of JIRA issue tracking system, what is an average satisfaction with it in terms of features, performance and stability?
    16:08:06… Would you be able to do such homework and send your findings via e-mail within next 2 weeks?
    16:08:25Annabel Melongo ok
    16:08:32Michel Graciano no problems to me too
    16:08:55Tushar Joshi yes I can, I have some experience of using Jira in one of my projects at work
    16:09:07Jiri Kovalsky Great! But this is really important. Please don't forget about it. Thanks. :-)
    16:09:30… Great, so now we are getting to the third item which is actually an organizational issue.
    16:16:02… Since both 1st of May and 8th of May are public holidays in the Czech Republic our next meeting [2] is scheduled for May 15th. [2]
    16:16:20… Hm, the link is of course:
    16:16:46Michel Graciano Sounds good to me]
    16:16:48Jiri Kovalsky In addition to that we will again meet in Skype because the collaboration service at has finally been stopped on April 20th - as you all know. :-)
    16:16:57… So, please mark your calendars and be online on time! :-)
    16:17:19Tushar Joshi That is same time as today
    16:18:07Jiri Kovalsky Sure.
    16:18:19… Any problem with the time anyone?
    16:18:29Annabel Melongo no
    16:18:43Tushar Joshi no, its ok for me, now I am back in India. (7.30pm for me)
    16:18:51Jiri Kovalsky OK, That's all from me today. Now, let's proceed to Voice Of Community.
    16:18:58… Annabel, the floor is yours for 15 minutes.
    16:19:19Annabel Melongo ok
    16:19:32… My first issues is about
    16:19:56… The GUI designer is not able to handle invisible components.
    16:20:16Michel Graciano :)
    16:20:26Jiri Kovalsky Michel commented on that one 1/2 year ago.
    16:21:00Annabel Melongo now more than ever, people are really complaining about it. Do you want the thread in
    16:21:36Jiri Kovalsky Sure.
    16:21:57Annabel Melongo wait a sec...
    16:22:55Jiri Kovalsky OK, I admit it has in reality 7 votes including 2 duplicates. The problem is that Matisse is in maintenance mode only.
    16:23:13Michel Graciano please melongo, if possible and you agree, the comments should be added to issue
    16:23:26… I know and understand about this issue and that point
    16:23:28Jiri Kovalsky So there is really nobody available to fix this issue. :-(
    16:23:36Michel Graciano calm down Jiri
    16:23:37… ;)
    16:24:07Jiri Kovalsky I feel good. :-D
    16:24:12Michel Graciano I talked with some people about how to solve this, and I wish to update the issue soon with some proposals
    16:24:41Jiri Kovalsky Hm, do you think you could also contribute a patch? ;-)
    16:25:06Michel Graciano one of that is, we could have the option on Properties view, but it could not reflect on Design, since several layouts need component visible to make possible create the correct code and so on
    16:25:10… really complicated scenatios
    16:25:11Jiri Kovalsky I am afraid it's not that easy.
    16:25:57Michel Graciano and yes, I think we can think about an patch, but for now, the workaround is really easy and the focus of patches is on more annoing issues
    16:26:24Jiri Kovalsky But why it's not possible to select the component in the inspector and set the code via properties as usual?
    16:26:35… +1
    16:27:23Annabel Melongo Here's the link:
    16:27:25Michel Graciano no
    16:27:33Jiri Kovalsky OK, so please comment on that issue Michel when you reach some consensus on the proposal, ok?
    16:27:34Michel Graciano the property visible is not available
    16:27:39… yes
    16:27:42… I will do it
    16:27:52… I am really happy melongo track it too
    16:28:47Jiri Kovalsky OK, I understand now. So we have an agreement. Annabel, what's next?
    16:29:39Annabel Melongo The next issue is...
    16:30:01… The update to NB 6.5 causes the build-impl.xml script to be modified in that it replaces the empty 'sourcepath' setting in the javac macrodef to '/does/not/exist' This change then generates warning messages everytime a build takes place
    16:30:38Jiri Kovalsky Yes, in my opinion this has better chances.
    16:32:23… Let me talk about this with Petr Gebauer and Jesse Glick. I will try to convince them to fix this. All in all I will let you know. Does this come from nbusers as well Annabel?
    16:32:51Annabel Melongo yes it does.
    16:33:05… want the link to
    16:35:08Jiri Kovalsky Yes, or just put here the subject of the thread and I will search it myself.
    16:35:51Annabel Melongo what a sec... I'll post it
    16:36:58… or I will send you the link later on, ok? my computer is really slow today...
    16:37:14Jiri Kovalsky Sure, no problem. Go to the next issue instead.
    16:37:29Annabel Melongo The next issue is...
    16:37:57… The fact that the scanning never terminates...
    16:38:03… The scanning of project takes to long and it consumes well over 50% of CPU time. Hindering thereby any subsequent operation on the IDE. Is this issue somewhat related to
    16:39:03Jiri Kovalsky Yep, this is being worked on and since it is NetCAT 6.7 issue I am not afraid this would be overlooked.
    16:39:54… As you can see Vitezslav Stejskal dedicates his time to it. If you notice that there is no progress please ping me.
    16:40:07… Right now I don't see any need for our intervention.
    16:40:13… Do you agree guys?
    16:40:32Tushar Joshi yes I am also watching this issue and see communication in NetCAT list
    16:40:33Jiri Kovalsky I don't question the problem, it's really serious though!
    16:40:54… Great, so let's move on.
    16:41:36Michel Graciano I am just sad becuase it was waived...
    16:41:44… move on...
    16:42:30Annabel Melongo The next issue(s) was submitted by our very own JIRI....
    16:43:21… In this issue, the need to edit an html file while in the preview mode like it's the case in dreamweaver. This issue is somewhat in tune with also submitted by Jiri.
    16:43:33Jiri Kovalsky Oops, sorry I thought we were talking about #161367 :-(
    16:44:00… So, my comments were meant to that issue.
    16:44:09Annabel Melongo yeap
    16:44:31Jiri Kovalsky Let's discuss the #134990 first.
    16:46:30Tushar Joshi This issue has 6.7_WAIVER_APPROVED
    16:46:41Michel Graciano I am really sad about it
    16:46:50… I know about the work done about it
    16:47:14Tushar Joshi does that mean it will be picked up after 6.7 is released
    16:48:09Jiri Kovalsky Hmmm, I remember this. Yes, it means that we are not able to fix it for 6.7.
    16:48:53Annabel Melongo actually it was just a question on the relationship between the two questions? Tushar actually submitted #134990 in our last meeting and my question was to know if #161367 falls in the same category?
    16:49:34Jiri Kovalsky I can ask Jan Jancura about it but there is almost no chance to improve the performance in 6.7 timeframe.
    16:50:12… I can at least add comment to that bug we were discussing this here.
    16:50:33… So that developers know they must pay attention to that after 6.7.
    16:50:42Michel Graciano :)
    16:50:43… i like that
    16:51:35Jiri Kovalsky @Annabel: I don't think it's same category.
    16:52:04Annabel Melongo sorry for misleading you but the issue is: #161367 NOT #134990
    16:52:05Jiri Kovalsky OK, let's discuss my RFE now!
    16:52:29… I know what you were asking about Annabel.
    16:54:38… While I am proud that my editable HTML preview feature is so popular this is again out of scope now that we have other priorities towards Connected Developer and headcount problem.
    16:54:52… I see this as a great opportunity for a community contribution.
    16:55:19… If somebody develops this plugin it would soon become #1 in the Plugin Portal. :-)
    16:55:37… Any comments?
    16:56:03Annabel Melongo none on my part
    16:56:17Michel Graciano none from me too
    16:56:31Jiri Kovalsky Fine, then let's move on.
    16:56:35Tushar Joshi I am just a beginner in the world of patches and NetBeans API which I started from NetFIX projects
    16:57:02… so I keep moving ahead bit by bit in that area
    16:57:08… lets move on
    16:57:25Jiri Kovalsky #63953?
    16:57:43Annabel Melongo Next issue?
    16:58:03… The need to have TODO statements shown in error stripe. Right now only TODO made with annotations are shown but unfortunately those annotations aren't supported yet by the task panel
    16:59:42Jiri Kovalsky Maybe we should simply ask Gregor Kovac - author of the feature.
    16:59:50Michel Graciano btw
    16:59:54… there is an plugin
    17:00:06… that highlight TODO in editor
    17:00:26… not for error stripe, but in editor it show the entire line in an different collor
    17:00:31… this help us here a lot
    17:00:48… the name is 'Editor TODO highlighter'
    17:01:01… 'Editor TODO highlighting'
    17:01:39Jiri Kovalsky Where do you get it from Michel?
    17:01:42Michel Graciano I think it is on contrib
    17:01:47… from nb UC
    17:01:48Jiri Kovalsky And does it work with 6.7?
    17:01:58Michel Graciano Latest Development UC
    17:02:01… yes
    17:02:06… I use it by default
    17:02:08Jiri Kovalsky Oh, yes I know.
    17:02:18Michel Graciano I think it is on contrib
    17:02:29… and could be extend to highlight it on error stripe too
    17:02:37… add some customizations
    17:02:50… and after the stabilization, we can integrate it on nb codebase
    17:02:58… maybe using netfix
    17:04:10Jiri Kovalsky The problem with such RFEs is that some people like it and others are satisfied with existing solution. In my humble opinion it's a perfect candidate for Update Center.
    17:05:09… Fine, so Michel do you think that this Editor TODO Highlighting plugin could help close this issue?
    17:05:39Michel Graciano it just help, but it doesn't show TODOs in error strip
    17:05:51… but I think it is an good start point
    17:05:52… btw
    17:05:58Jiri Kovalsky You are entitled to close your own issue if you consider the feature implemented. :-)
    17:06:04Tushar Joshi :)
    17:06:41Jiri Kovalsky So, any volunteer to evaluate the code?
    17:06:52Michel Graciano :)
    17:06:57Annabel Melongo The issue is to show it in ERROR STRIP; by will be the benefit of a plugin that does anything BUT what it is asked of?
    17:07:15Michel Graciano now i see that I am the reporter
    17:07:17… :)
    17:07:24Jiri Kovalsky :-D
    17:07:45Michel Graciano i will take a look on it
    17:07:52… and close issue asap
    17:08:02Jiri Kovalsky No, I mean if the Editor TODO Highlighter is extended and published on the UC, this issue can be close IMHO.
    17:08:14… OK. Go next Annabel.
    17:08:26Annabel Melongo The next one is pretty dramatic...
    17:08:29Jiri Kovalsky Michel should have already be somewhere else, right?
    17:08:50Michel Graciano no
    17:08:52… I am here
    17:08:57… My another meeting was cancelled
    17:08:58… :)
    17:09:14Jiri Kovalsky Excellent! You don't have to HG clone yourself. ;-)
    17:09:21Annabel Melongo #79680 This one is really bad. Whenever something goes wrong with the UML, the user has to restart EVERYTHING from scratch since there's no undo button to go to the previous state.
    17:10:29Jiri Kovalsky Hm, that's really sad but I have to say that our UML support is not good indeed.
    17:13:01… Again, not enough people to work on UML, that's why it was removed from the standard distribution to Stable UC, now to Beta UC and people are suggested to use SDE for NetBeans from Visual Paradigm. :-\
    17:13:28… Only 1 engineer working on that. See that last comment? :-(
    17:13:40Michel Graciano people, I need to go
    17:13:52… sorry... I had no issues for today
    17:13:54Jiri Kovalsky Sure, thanks for coming Michel!
    17:14:00Annabel Melongo have a nice day Michel...
    17:14:03Michel Graciano any need, just let me know
    17:14:18… and I am already reading TODO Highlighting code...
    17:14:19Jiri Kovalsky OK. Have a nice weekend!
    17:14:20Michel Graciano see ya
    17:14:24… for you too
    17:14:28… bye
    17:14:32Jiri Kovalsky Bye
    17:14:46Tushar Joshi c u Michel
    17:14:51Jiri Kovalsky Annabel, let's go to the last issue.
    17:15:35Annabel Melongo actually the last one is one that I raised next time....
    17:15:53Jiri Kovalsky Yes, I remember that.
    17:16:07Annabel Melongo The reason is now a HIGHER priority it's because of our MARRIAGE with oracle...
    17:17:07Jiri Kovalsky I have already contacted Petr Jiricka but since his people are overwhelmed by fixing P1/P2 issue to at least stabilize the J2EE features in 6.7 there is no time for this RFE no matter it is P1.
    17:17:31Annabel Melongo don't you think it would be a marketing advantage to fix it before everything gets settled with oracle;
    17:18:33Jiri Kovalsky I think it would be a nice Welcome message as well as publishing Oracle DB support plugin we had for NetBeans 5.5 I guess.
    17:18:51… I can discuss this with Petr one more time.
    17:19:15… If that's all I would like to ask Tushar for his input today.
    17:20:04Annabel Melongo It would be really great; for NB to be above JDeveloper, we should implement that feature. This will force the Oracle people to KEEP NB ;)
    17:20:48Jiri Kovalsky Hm, I wish you are right Annabel. :-)
    17:21:18… Now Tushar, do you have something for us today?
    17:21:47Tushar Joshi nothing left for me, just one update
    17:22:00The groovy issue i talked last time is flagged fixed
    17:22:42Jiri Kovalsky Oh, great. Did you or reporter double check it?
    17:22:47Tushar Joshi and I have identified that the Rectangular Edit tools plugin does not work in 6.7 and I am able to identify there is some deprecated API used which needs change in it
    17:23:33… I will add my comment on that issue today (groovy issue, with last check on the issue with the latest development build)
    17:24:20Jiri Kovalsky Fine thanks.
    17:24:37… Re: #13857 - it's shame that the plugin does not help.
    17:25:30… The source code should be in the main/contrib though.
    17:25:40… Don't you want to look at it? ;-)
    17:25:46Tushar Joshi I think the plugin worked fine for some old version and not yet updated for the 6.5.1 or upper versions
    17:26:09… I have the code with me now and hence I can say that there is a deprecated API warning in the IDE while using that plugin
    17:26:40… I am going ahead in this investigation and will try to provide a updated version for 6.7 version which may then solve this issue #13857
    17:26:55Jiri Kovalsky Well, maybe only tiny refactoring will help to get rid of the deprecated API usage.
    17:27:08Tushar Joshi yes this is my view also hence I am hopeful
    17:27:10Jiri Kovalsky Yes, that's what I meant.
    17:27:14… :-)
    17:27:28… OK, so I will put all our action items in the minutes as usually.
    17:27:30Tushar Joshi and it becomes my starting point in NetFIX also
    17:27:38Jiri Kovalsky Great!
    17:27:47Tushar Joshi so then after this I can actively start with NetFIX issues
    17:28:00Jiri Kovalsky NetFIX is progressing well in my opinion.
    17:28:16… Any closing thoughts or questions today?
    17:28:22Annabel Melongo Talking about Oracle, what are the feature plans? Users are really anxious about their investment with NB. Can you just tell us the appropriate message to give them?
    17:29:16Jiri Kovalsky I wish I could say something about it but I really don't know.
    17:30:37… All I know is that Oracle has already went through 25 acquisitions and the company is not used to abandoning its investments and projects.
    17:31:32… I am also sure that 600k+ active NetBeans users plus #2 market share is a good value for NetBeans.
    17:31:55… That's all.
    17:32:06… What do you think about it?
    17:32:39Annabel Melongo Ok, let's wait and see. I think that NB has a far better chance than JDeveloper to survive... but we have to show that though!!!
    17:33:14Tushar Joshi yes ltes wait and see
    17:33:34Jiri Kovalsky Yes, let's see. Thanks for your support and for your time today.
    17:33:52… And remember we will meet in 3 weeks here!
    17:34:07Annabel Melongo Have a nice week-end Tushar and Jiri. Nice to meet you...
    17:34:28Jiri Kovalsky +1 Enjoy the weekend.
    17:34:37… Bye Annabel & Tushar.
    17:34:44Annabel Melongo Bye
    17:34:44Tushar Joshi wish nice weekend to all
    17:34:47… c u again

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