Transcript of Voice of Community chat

Topic: VOC meeting #5
Date: March 13th, 2009 (Friday :-)
Time: 4:00 PM Central European Time
Duration: 1 hour
Conversation: netbeans
Chat Client: NetBeans Developer Collaboration module
Participants:
  • Michel Graciano (Brazil)
  • Tushar Joshi (India)
  • Melongo Annabel (USA)
  • Jiri Kovalsky (Czech Republic)

  • Agenda:
    1. Update: New Plugin Portal live [Jiri, 5 minutes]
    2. Feedback: VOC process so far [all, 10 minutes]
    3. Discussion: Outstanding potential VOC issues [Melongo, Tushar, Michel, 40 minutes]
    4. Q&A [all, 5 minutes]

    Minutes:

  • Update on the recently deployed new version of Plugin Portal
  • Everyone is satisfied with VOC process so far:
       * Michel spends ~2-4 hours daily with focus on 6.5 updates
       * Tushar spends ~1-2 hours daily with focus on FAQs/tutorials/blogs
       * Melongo's life completely changed as she feels strong responsibility for satisfied NetBeans community (~2 hours daily, outstanding activity on mailing lists)
  • Melongo shared her collection of feedback on NetBeans 6.7 Milestone 2
  • Per Petr Hejl's standpoint issue #159464 has lower priority than other P3s. Might get fixed later.
  • Melongo pointed out at #157561 issue being discussed in the community.
  • Next meeting is scheduled for Friday - 3/27 at 3:00 p.m. CET
  • Action items:

  • All VOC Captains to monitor feedback on the new Plugin Portal.
  • Jiri to forward Melongo's summary to QE managers for evaluation.
  • Melongo to contact Allan Davis about issue #150510.
  • Michel to contact John O'Conner to find out current status of his "space-in-path" problem.
  • Tushar to simulate issue #133943 with large codebase and add investigations.
  • 3:56:31tusharvjoshi joined the conversation
    3:56:34hmichel joined the conversation
    3:56:35amelongo joined the conversation
    3:57:05Jiri Kovalsky OK, all of us are here so what if we start right away?
    3:58:16amelongo sure
    3:58:44hmichel no problem for me
    3:58:51tusharvjoshi I am also ok
    3:59:05Jiri Kovalsky OK, let's ignore today's date and start. :-)
    3:59:12hmichel btw, daylight saving is a problem, as well timezone
    3:59:36Jiri Kovalsky I just shared the agenda if you didn't have a chance to read it yesterday.
    4:00:20Jiri Kovalsky So, first is the Plugin Portal. I have already created a news item about it yesterday so maybe this does not come as any surprise to you.
    4:00:34Jiri Kovalsky Over the last weekend we successfully deployed new version of the Plugin Portal. If you are interested in more details, read here: http://www.netbeans.org/servlets/NewsItemView?newsItemID=1357
    4:00:50Jiri Kovalsky Hence I would like to ask you to pay extra attention now to any complaints within NetBeans community about the Plugin Portal. We have already done some benchmarking tests and are investigating measured results but would be interested in any findings coming from the community. Thanks a lot!
    4:00:59Jiri Kovalsky Can I rely on you in this regard? :-)
    4:01:43tusharvjoshi Yes, I will keep an eye on anything related to this new portal being discussed in community
    4:01:48Jiri Kovalsky BTW, what is your own experience with Plugin Portal?
    4:01:53amelongo sure
    4:02:21hmichel sure, I had special interest about plugin portal
    4:02:50Jiri Kovalsky What do you mean by the "special interest"?
    4:04:17amelongo I usually use the portal to find out supported plugins. So if someone for example, ask for a plugin that's not in the plugin center, I will go the portal and re-check
    4:05:07hmichel this is one of resource from nb website I really use, as well IZ
    4:05:07hmichel so, any update are welcome
    4:05:16hmichel :D
    4:05:43Jiri Kovalsky Yes, just be sure that Update Center and Plugin Portal are two distinct things.
    4:06:17Jiri Kovalsky UC is fully in NetBeans team hands while Plugin Portal is fully in hands of community.
    4:06:46Jiri Kovalsky Tools > Plugins takes plugins from both sources though.
    4:07:15tusharvjoshi http://plugins.netbeans.org/nbpluginportal/files/nbms/pluginportal-update-center.xml recently I added this URL to my plugins settings to receive anything in the plugin portal in plugins dialog
    4:07:32Jiri Kovalsky And did you encounter some serious problems with the Plugin Portal?
    4:07:56tusharvjoshi I havent found any problems till now
    4:08:02Jiri Kovalsky Yes, but beware Tushar. All these plugins are of unknown quality.
    4:08:38Jiri Kovalsky And what about Michel and Melongo? Satisfied with the UI, performance etc.?
    4:08:40tusharvjoshi Yes I am aware. I do not use this in production installation
    4:09:22amelongo I have no issue with UI or performance.
    4:09:47Jiri Kovalsky Since Michel looks busy let's continue.
    4:09:57Jiri Kovalsky Second item on the agenda is very important to me personally. Everyone of us already gained some experience with VOC initiative, this is our 5th meeting and I think it's the right time now to share with others your opinion about it.
    4:10:05Jiri Kovalsky Does it meet your initial expectations? Have you already created some habits, personal hints worth sharing? Would you recommend it to other community members? How much time do you spent on monitoring blogs, lists and other channels? What do you like and what not? So many questions... :-)
    4:10:34Jiri Kovalsky Who wants to speak first?
    4:10:41hmichel I can start
    4:11:15hmichel abou this program, I just continue with my normal habits
    4:11:35hmichel I read all as possible messages on nb mainlists and some forums
    4:11:50hmichel as well, all issues as possible for several modules
    4:12:18hmichel with this info, I try to define issue for 6.5 patches, issues that need attention and so on
    4:12:41hmichel I think it is our reponsability, thack community needs and try to make it available asap
    4:13:11hmichel I think these are my thoughts
    4:13:48Jiri Kovalsky OK, and is the time you dedicate to VOC weekly acceptable for you?
    4:14:52hmichel normally 2 until 4 hours per day, because I read emails all day, so, it is diluted during the day, with help of Google Reader for blogs and forums
    4:15:45Jiri Kovalsky Isee. So would you say the VOC initiative is worth going on?
    4:16:30hmichel of course, some days it is not possible to invest so much time
    4:17:20hmichel about the process, it is really valuable, it is a possibility to narrow community to nb team
    4:17:46Jiri Kovalsky OK, thanks Michel. Tushar do you want to be next since Melongo is away.
    4:17:53tusharvjoshi Yes sure
    4:19:05tusharvjoshi Yes VOC has met my initial expectations.  I was expecting some issues to be fixed and we have achieved to get the fixes of our issues with this process.  I have not yet received or observed any body in the community say something about VOC but for me it was a valueble process
    4:19:58Jiri Kovalsky That's good to hear.
    4:20:32tusharvjoshi I have started spending more time on the NetBeans FAQ and tutorial pages.  The habit I have formed is to assume all the information is available in the FAQ and tutorial sites and when ever some community member is not able to get the information head them to the correct page and it is usually available in the site somewhere. If it is not then I try to find out whether there is any issue already filed and ask them to vote for it
    4:21:05tusharvjoshi Then if the issue is not at all reported and is a genuine problem I either ask them to file an issue and also offer help in filing it for them if required
    4:21:15Jiri Kovalsky Oh, that's a really good approach!
    4:21:37tusharvjoshi I will certainly recomment this to other community members
    4:22:04Jiri Kovalsky OK, and how much time consuming do you find VOC to be for you?
    4:22:33tusharvjoshi I mostly rely on the Google Alert service where I have set alerts for NetBeans keyword.  This service sends me mails with all the blogs and mentions of the NetBeans in the cyber space.  This way I come to know more bloggers and community members who are writing for NetBeans
    4:23:00Jiri Kovalsky Yes, I use Google Alerts as well. :-)
    4:23:00tusharvjoshi I am also an active Twitter member.  I help many NetBeans community and other people on Twitter with tips and hints
    4:23:22hmichel :-)
    4:23:31tusharvjoshi Twitter is fast for expressing hate fr NetBeans even if it is momentary
    4:23:36Jiri Kovalsky I think you can blog about VOC now but please mention that we are still in the beginning.
    4:24:38tusharvjoshi Initially I though I will time box max 3 hours per week for this activity but I find myself spending 1 to 2 hours daily and also about 2 to 3 hours on weekends naturally.  It has not remained an forced activity now
    4:25:17Jiri Kovalsky Excellent, anything else to add before I ask Melongo?
    4:25:30tusharvjoshi Thats all from me for now
    4:25:43Jiri Kovalsky Fine, so it's your turn Melongo.
    4:25:48amelongo ok
    4:26:07amelongo It has changed my life a bit. He has given me a sense of responsibility and organization.
    4:26:26Jiri Kovalsky Oh really?!
    4:26:29amelongo Responsibility in that I know what I'm doing depends of the needs of a lot of developers
    4:27:00amelongo Organization in that I have to monitor lists, forums, blogs, make notes, organize my time and my email folders and ask people to file issues
    4:27:35Jiri Kovalsky I see and be sure you do a great job!
    4:27:42amelongo Even sometimes during the week-end, when I'm not checking the lists, I feel like I'm letting people down. So I decide to watch the least ONCE during the week-end
    4:28:19amelongo It has also given me a lot of recognition. I sent my friends the page on the recognition page and they seemed impressed...even though I really did nothing to deserve it...
    4:28:38Jiri Kovalsky Oh, don't forget about your jogging Melongo too! ;-)
    4:28:51Jiri Kovalsky I don't want you to burn out with this...
    4:29:04amelongo Yes, that one I can't forget. Saturday and Sunday :-)
    4:29:23amelongo I would definitely recommend VOC to all NB users. I've learned a lot and I'm still learning; surprisingly I discovered that in helping others, I'm helping myself being more acquainted with NB and java programming.
    4:29:54Jiri Kovalsky That's right. I have also learned most by teaching others.
    4:30:13amelongo I usually spent 2 hours on it after hours and I don't complain a bit. That's all on my side.
    4:30:32Jiri Kovalsky So, it looks like VOC also met your expectations...
    4:30:46amelongo Definitely and then some...
    4:31:55Jiri Kovalsky OK, so I wanted to know all this because of a simple reason: whenever you feel discontended let me know in order to change direction, implement new ideas etc.
    4:32:22Jiri Kovalsky We are in the middle now so let's open the VOC feedback!
    4:32:37amelongo :-)
    4:32:41Jiri Kovalsky Guys, you didn't send anything, does it mean you have no input for today?
    4:33:05tusharvjoshi I have no significant issue to report today from platform or core side
    4:33:39Jiri Kovalsky To let Melongo relax for some more time, Michel is it the same case with you?
    4:33:40hmichel I think melongo sent some issues
    4:33:52hmichel I have nothing for today too
    4:34:18Jiri Kovalsky Wow, so maybe meeting will me short today. :-)
    4:34:21Jiri Kovalsky Melongo?
    4:34:32amelongo OK
    4:35:05amelongo My first point aren't issues per se but complaints, suggestions about NB6.7M2
    4:35:25amelongo - Support of First Class Static Analysis for all projects types like it's the case in Ruby: http://blogs.sun.com/tor/entry/ruby_code_coverage_in_the http://blogs.sun.com/tor/entry/netbeans_screenshot_of_the_week6
    - ability to right click a failed test and re-run it - a ">>" button to re-run whatever I ran a minute ago
    - ability to double click on any test case in the JUnit runner tree and take me to that code
    - ability to double click lines in failed test stack trace to take me to the code
    - several times I've tried to do remote debugging and NB6.7m2 suddenly asks me to install Maven in order for JPDA debugging to work! Then I'm caught in a catch 22. So I have to enable Maven for debugging (not always) and then disable it for coding
    - Turning Ergonomic IDE Turn off option: http://www.nabble.com/Ergonomics-hides-my-experimental-module-to21555327.html#a21964891
    - Provide Ergonomic Project life cycle options: http://www.nabble.com/NetBeans-6.7-confused-me...-to22219597.html#a22240461
    4:36:28Jiri Kovalsky Wow, this will take some time to chew up ...
    4:36:58Jiri Kovalsky The re-run of test is currently being discussed on DreamTeam mailing list.
    4:37:33Jiri Kovalsky Alexei Mokeev (engineering manager who is in charge of JUnit) is looking at that.
    4:37:48hmichel I saw that discusion on users mainling list too
    4:38:12Jiri Kovalsky BTW, where do all those comments come from? nbusers?
    4:38:48amelongo They come from just posting and I save those complaints and today, I compiled this list.
    4:39:31amelongo I just couldn't ask them to file complaints when they're angry
    4:39:58Jiri Kovalsky That's really great. Is it always like one problem per one complainer or did you find some recurring?
    4:41:09amelongo I had some other issues on Ergonomics but I found out that the Ergonomics team has taken care of most of them. I was really impressed. They really work fast on that team...
    4:41:57amelongo Do you want me to go to the next issue, Jiri?
    4:43:26Jiri Kovalsky Yes, especially Yarda Tulach, right? I will forward this list to our QE managers and ask for their evaluation. Yes, please go on Melongo.
    4:44:46hmichel here you can see one of discusions about JUnit http://www.netbeans.org/servlets/ReadMsg?listName=nbusers&msgNo=133345
    4:45:05amelongo The next issue has a lot of buzz... it's about themes that are lost when someone restart the IDE: http://netbeans.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=159464
    4:48:01Jiri Kovalsky I agree that the impact is pretty bad. On the other hand this is about Groovy while majority of NetBeans users still use Java: http://statistics.netbeans.org/analytics/graph/projectsessions.jsp?minimal=1&netbeans_version=All&submit_netbeans_version=Show+Version
    4:49:32Jiri Kovalsky Anyway, I have contacted Petr Hejl (assigned developer) already and he said that his priorities now are P2 and P3 bugs like #158246, #159050 or #152894.
    4:49:57Jiri Kovalsky When he is done with these he might be able to fix this settings loss issue.
    4:50:09Jiri Kovalsky That's all I know with regard to this.
    4:51:25amelongo In this issue, there was a defect on the editor regarding empty spaces that got fixed in http://netbeans.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=13063 now people are complaining to have that FIXED issue put as an option and let the user choose whether s/he wants trailing spaces http://netbeans.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=157561
    4:51:41Jiri Kovalsky BTW, how did you come across this issue?
    4:51:57amelongo Which one? The first or second?
    4:52:10Jiri Kovalsky Actually both.
    4:53:16amelongo The first one, someone posted a complaint on why it wasn't taken care of The second one, I asked someone to file and issue and he paste the link on the mailing list
    4:53:40Jiri Kovalsky Well, I saw in the RFE #13063 that someone requested an option to control the behavior of removing the trailing spaces so this should not come as a surprise...
    4:54:53Jiri Kovalsky I see. Luckily these were just individuals complaining and not long blaming threads ...
    4:55:22amelongo I have an issue I didn't mention yesterday but that also deserves our attention. Do you want that issue too?
    4:55:39Jiri Kovalsky Sure thing.
    4:56:19amelongo This is about Python; I don't know about Python but it seems a script is run even after it has been deleted: http://netbeans.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=150510
    4:57:29Jiri Kovalsky Oh, this sounds dramatic. Let me take a closer look...
    4:59:01Jiri Kovalsky I don't understand why it's assigned to "ardavis26".
    4:59:14amelongo Who is ardavis26?
    5:00:26Jiri Kovalsky It's a community member like you. He should not own this.
    5:01:13Jiri Kovalsky But wait a minute maybe it's the original contributor. Python support came from community if I remember correctly.
    5:02:37Jiri Kovalsky Oh yes, it's Allan Davis! Who started this as a project in NetBeans Innovators Grant contest: http://wiki.netbeans.org/GrantProjectsStatus
    5:03:10Jiri Kovalsky Can you please Melongo contact him via e-mail to find out more information?
    5:03:28amelongo sure
    5:03:52Jiri Kovalsky OK, thanks.
    5:04:07Jiri Kovalsky Michel, have you already chance to approach John O'Conner to find out current status of his "space-in-path" problem?
    5:04:18Jiri Kovalsky Or do you consider it resolved?
    5:04:42hmichel No, I didn't had time to test and reproduce with user steps
    5:05:07amelongo I think tushar did it, right?
    5:05:07hmichel this is in my todo list yet
    5:05:27Jiri Kovalsky OK, thanks!
    5:05:52Jiri Kovalsky Tushar, did you try to simulate the performance issue? http://netbeans.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=133943
    5:06:21Jiri Kovalsky I know you wanted to comment on that...
    5:06:28tusharvjoshi I tried simulating this issue but found no much data
    5:06:50tusharvjoshi and I found the issue said as fixed in the new version
    5:07:30Jiri Kovalsky We are stuck with this problem and would appreciate more investigations hence I am asking...
    5:07:51Jiri Kovalsky Oh really? Where?
    5:08:01tusharvjoshi Wait let me check the issue page first
    5:08:56tusharvjoshi Ok I am confusing between two issues
    5:09:16Jiri Kovalsky If this was true, I am sure our guys would request verification.
    5:09:32tusharvjoshi There are two issues one related,  one is to make IDE functional while projects are being loaded and scanned
    5:10:04tusharvjoshi and the other one was just NetBeans keeps on scanning the projects and classpath after certain time
    5:10:47tusharvjoshi This is the first one and I believe this happens when we have lots of projects opened and large code bases
    5:11:03Jiri Kovalsky OK, so would it be possible for you to give the simulation one more try?
    5:11:12tusharvjoshi The issues i said was said as fixed was the caching of the indexes
    5:11:24tusharvjoshi to improve the performance of scanning classpath
    5:11:29Jiri Kovalsky Oh yes, that's right.
    5:11:36tusharvjoshi Yes I will give it a try with large code base
    5:11:46Jiri Kovalsky Excellent.
    5:11:47tusharvjoshi and I will also try to open many more projects to simulate this issue
    5:12:03Jiri Kovalsky Fantastic. Anything else guys?
    5:12:42tusharvjoshi thats all from me
    5:13:09amelongo I have one question. What about he "Re:" issue in the mailing list and the message context? Did you have time to address this? It's really getting worse everyday to track messages.
    5:13:47hmichel thats all for me too
    5:14:40Jiri Kovalsky I keep on bothering Jan Pirek (our only webmaster) about this but he has two days off now and then he still have higher priority task.
    5:14:49Jiri Kovalsky But this one is next.
    5:15:05amelongo Also, what about the NEW meeting time?
    5:15:42Jiri Kovalsky Do you mean until summer time is applied to Europe?
    5:16:04Jiri Kovalsky I have no problem meeting one hour ealier on 3/27.
    5:16:04amelongo I really don't know. 10am is just not doable for me.
    5:16:27Jiri Kovalsky It's 11:00 a.m. there?
    5:16:37amelongo yes
    5:16:44Jiri Kovalsky OK, guys?
    5:16:56hmichel 11 am, which timezone?
    5:17:05amelongo central time
    5:17:14hmichel CET is it?
    5:17:37amelongo I don't know Michel. Sorry. I have to check
    5:18:02Jiri Kovalsky So the proposal is to meet on 3/27 at 3:00 p.m. CET (9:00 a.m. Central Time).
    5:18:16amelongo yes
    5:18:17Jiri Kovalsky Michel it is only 1 hour earlier than today.
    5:18:35hmichel ok, it probably will be a problem for me
    5:18:48hmichel I have meeting this time every day
    5:19:03amelongo But that's the time we used to meet?
    5:20:01Jiri Kovalsky No, it's 1 hour earlier. But since you use summer time as well, it should be the same time for you.
    5:20:12amelongo You had daylight change too, right? Here we went ahead one hour.
    5:20:27hmichel now, I am not at summer time now
    5:20:48Jiri Kovalsky http://timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?month=3&day=27&year=2009&hour=15&min=0&sec=0&p1=204
    5:20:49hmichel right now, here is 13:20 PM, we start the meeting 12 AM
    5:21:13Jiri Kovalsky Is this okay for you Michel?
    5:22:12hmichel if the meeting is in that time, I had just 30 minutes with you
    5:22:40Jiri Kovalsky I think it is doable. Europe will switch to summer time soon as well.
    5:22:51Jiri Kovalsky Tushar? Does it work for you?
    5:22:58tusharvjoshi it is ok with me
    5:23:12Jiri Kovalsky Great, so are we done for today?
    5:23:14hmichel ok, if it is not a problem for you, no problem for me too. I can start if I had any point
    5:23:19hmichel yes, done for today
    5:23:30amelongo done too.
    5:23:33Jiri Kovalsky Agreed @michel
    5:23:36hmichel see you soon people. Have a good day
    5:23:38tusharvjoshi done
    5:23:40Jiri Kovalsky Fine, so enjoy your weekend!
    5:23:50hmichel bye
    5:23:59Jiri Kovalsky Bye!


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    $Date: 2009/11/02 14:13:06 $ GMT

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