Transcript of Voice of Community chat

Topic: VOC meeting #4
Date: February 27th, 2009
Time: 4:00 PM Central European Time
Duration: 1 hour
Conversation: netbeans
Chat Client: NetBeans Developer Collaboration module
Participants:
  • Tushar Joshi (India)
  • Melongo Annabel (USA)
  • Jiri Kovalsky (Czech Republic)

  • Agenda:
    1. Update: 7.0 -> 6.7 [Jiri, 5 minutes]
    2. Update: NetCAT, NetFIX programs [Jiri, 10 minutes]
    3. Status info: Word wrapping #89894 [Jiri, 5 minutes]
    4. Discussion: Outstanding potential VOC issues [Melongo, Tushar, Michel, 35 minutes]
    5. Q&A [all, 5 minutes]

    Minutes:

  • Tushar wants to join NetCAT 6.7, Melongo&Tushar are interested in NetFIX
  • We are working on a fix for #133943
  • Melongo: please add "Re:" prefix to subjects sent from forums & include context links (#159178)
  • Action items:

  • Jiri to send NetFIX invitation to both Melongo&Tushar
  • Tushar to forward blog posts about slow scanning of projects, try to simulate it himself and comment on #133943 + possibly enhance hints in Wiki
  • Melongo to send "good" and "bad" forum posts to show issue #159178
  • Michel to approach John O'Conner to find out current status of his "space-in-path" problems
  • 3:59:28amelongo joined the conversation
    3:59:31tusharvjoshi joined the conversation
    4:00:11Jiri Kovalsky Hello guys!
    4:00:24amelongo HI Everybody
    4:00:25tusharvjoshi Hello All
    4:00:39Jiri Kovalsky Michel will most probably not come, I guess.
    4:00:56Jiri Kovalsky OK, se let's start.
    4:01:01tusharvjoshi ok
    4:01:19Jiri Kovalsky The first item on the agenda is the recent change in NetBeans versioning scheme. As you might know we will be delivering more frequent although smaller releases rather than one or two big releases per calendar year. To reflect this decision we changed version of the next release from 7.0 to 6.7. There is no hidden intention behind this and I only wanted to give you an update on this.
    4:01:42Jiri Kovalsky Does anyone have a question regarding this matter?
    4:01:58amelongo No question
    4:02:14tusharvjoshi I dont have any question, I also read about why not 6.6 as NetBeans has a long relation with number 6
    4:02:36Jiri Kovalsky Yes, that's funny explanation.
    4:02:45amelongo Being that's why we get punished
    4:03:26Jiri Kovalsky But in addition to that the changes are bigger that qualify for 6.7 and not only 6.6
    4:03:43Jiri Kovalsky How did you get punished, Melongo?
    4:04:20amelongo Since we skippep .6, well the "Devil" is getting its revenge
    4:04:25tusharvjoshi so we consider this as NetBeans going two small steps forward
    4:04:34Jiri Kovalsky Yes. BTW, have you noticed we published M2 of NetBeans 6.7?
    4:04:48tusharvjoshi Yes I downloaded the same day and testing it now
    4:04:53amelongo Yes I saw it.
    4:05:04Jiri Kovalsky Great.
    4:05:25Jiri Kovalsky Another news I wanted to share with you is also a project update. As NetBeans Technical Community Manager I am also responsible for NetCAT programs - our popular Beta testing initiative. This should be well known at least to Michel Graciano, am I right Michel? Yesterday, I published the plan for NetCAT 6.7 [1] and I suggest you get familiar with the document to be aware of this upcoming program because it will take big portion of my time for several months. Or even better incorporate it into your plans and join the crowd on March 23rd. [1] http://wiki.netbeans.org/NB67NetCAT
    4:06:11Jiri Kovalsky Question to Michel is just rhetorical, of course. :-)
    4:06:22amelongo Sounds good
    4:06:46tusharvjoshi This is interesting and I will take a look at this project over the weekend and I plan to join as you suggested
    4:07:25Jiri Kovalsky That would be great Tushar.
    4:07:33Jiri Kovalsky In addition to that I succeeded to convince our management to try also something brand new: NetFIX - a team of developers from community who could help us stabilize the codebase and fix bugs. Although there is a lot of TBDs regarding this effort, it's also a unique chance to shape NetFIX's format from its beginning. Again, Michel is one of those already known volunteers and if you are interested as well or spot somebody in the community who is about to contribute patches, just let me know. Thanks! Any questions about this?
    4:08:35tusharvjoshi I am interested to be involved in fixing some issues and sending patches so I will watch the NetFIX program closely
    4:08:49amelongo I'm really interested in fixing patches. It will be a patch to get to know the code
    4:09:08tusharvjoshi I have already made a local copy of the whole project and going through sources since last week
    4:09:36Jiri Kovalsky OK, so do you want me to send you an invitation to NetFIX Definining chat schedule poll?
    4:09:45amelongo Do you have a wiki for NetFIX?
    4:09:49Jiri Kovalsky That's really cool!
    4:09:55tusharvjoshi Please include me YES
    4:10:23amelongo Send me an invitation too
    4:10:35Jiri Kovalsky Not yet. The Wiki/homepage/whatever is planned after the community expresses the real interest and help me shape the process.
    4:10:57Jiri Kovalsky Perfect, so I will keep you in the loop.
    4:11:10Jiri Kovalsky So, let's move on.
    4:11:17Jiri Kovalsky Finally I wanted to inform you about Word wrapping issue #89894 which Michel pointed out on 2/11. Actually, I don't have good news because according to Vitezslav Stejskal (responsible developer) there is no staffing for this area and so no plans to implement it anytime soon. This means that the only chance is a community contribution however no matter how trivial this seems to be the feature is quite complex in reality. I am sorry but that's all from me in this regard.
    4:12:26tusharvjoshi As I know this is a RFE and I agree that this will be a direct enhancement of the Editor component and will require much deep know-how of the code base even for a community member to contribute
    4:13:01Jiri Kovalsky Well said Tushar.
    4:14:27Jiri Kovalsky So, that's all from me for this meeting. If you don't have any questions regarding what was said we can continue to your feedback.
    4:14:47amelongo I have no question
    4:15:07tusharvjoshi Ok so I will start with the issue I have to discuss
    4:15:09Jiri Kovalsky Tushar, since you are in a hurry, go first. The floor is yours.
    4:15:46tusharvjoshi I have forwarded a thread on the voc mailing list and have found a related issue number #133943 related to scanning of projects
    4:15:59tusharvjoshi We already discussed about similar issue last time
    4:16:32tusharvjoshi I was not able to get direct evidence but there is a lot of blog posts and general argument in community for this issue
    4:16:57Jiri Kovalsky A lot blog posts?
    4:17:05Jiri Kovalsky Can you forward us some of them?
    4:17:18Jiri Kovalsky Of course 15 votes speaks for itself too.
    4:17:24tusharvjoshi There are around 10 related issues of the similar category
    4:17:46tusharvjoshi I will try to get hold of the blog posts and will forward them to list
    4:18:17amelongo I've read those posts. In some cases, there are people who just want to turn it off.
    4:18:25tusharvjoshi I will try to simulate some similar situation on my laptop and will add to the comments on that issue.  For now I wanted to highlight the issue and start the discussion
    4:18:30Jiri Kovalsky That would help me a lot, really.
    4:18:34tusharvjoshi I also have one suggestion
    4:19:03Jiri Kovalsky Turn off automatic classpath scanning?
    4:19:08tusharvjoshi The scanning and performance things is discussed many a times in the community, do we have tutorials or wiki pages to explain how to optimize the projects while working in NetBeans?
    4:19:34amelongo Yes, some want to turn it off because it slows them
    4:19:50tusharvjoshi So when next time someone comes up with similar argument we can point them to a special dedicated section of permormance in wiki or tutorials
    4:20:16Jiri Kovalsky There are couple of hints mentioned in the Wiki FAQs: http://wiki.netbeans.org/NetBeansUserFAQ#section-NetBeansUserFAQ-Performance
    4:21:09Jiri Kovalsky OK, so let me say something about it. I have already spoken with Pavel Flaska (currently assigned developer)...
    4:21:20tusharvjoshi Ok so I will try to see if these wiki pages answer to their qiestions and will try to point them there.
    4:22:25amelongo and if not, add an entry to it
    4:22:52tusharvjoshi Sure Melongo, I do plan to add additional information if it is not there.
    4:23:31Jiri Kovalsky ... and according to his words they are working on that in a private local branch. The plan is to make index readable even during scanning process. The fix is rather fragile though and we can expect even deadlocks so proper testing will be necessary.
    4:24:42Jiri Kovalsky They want to produce a private build on Monday, then test it and if performance improves and quality will be satisfactory they want to merge it to trunk later.
    4:26:18Jiri Kovalsky This solution should improve Go to Type, Go to File and possibly even Code Completion. We can't predict the result thought so please be patient.
    4:26:29Jiri Kovalsky Is it enough for now Tushar?
    4:26:51tusharvjoshi ok, this sounds good, I will keep note of this and follow the issue in coming days. Yes that is enough Jirka
    4:27:14Jiri Kovalsky OK, great. Anything else Tushar?
    4:27:25tusharvjoshi Thats all from myside this time
    4:27:38Jiri Kovalsky Fine, so you are free.
    4:27:46Jiri Kovalsky Thanks for your input of course!
    4:27:59Jiri Kovalsky Now Melongo, it's your turn.
    4:28:15amelongo My issue is #159178 This issue is relevant because it makes scanning the mailing lists easier
    4:28:48Jiri Kovalsky Oh yes, I have seen your communication with Wade Chandler on nbdiscuss alias.
    4:29:38amelongo Sometimes, if someone submits an issue, there's no way of seen that message in context. In some emails you can click the Nabble link and in some you can't
    4:30:02Jiri Kovalsky But it depends on how you send the message, right?
    4:30:28amelongo I don't think so, I think the system add that Nabble link
    4:30:41Jiri Kovalsky I don't use nabble.com service so my messages don't have the links either.
    4:32:03amelongo That's why it would be easier to have the mailing list system append that link to make navigation easier. Right now, it I have to view a message in its context, all the threads, I have to go to Nabble.com and search it there.
    4:33:09amelongo I would be nice though to have the system append the message context "automatically" once the message is received before forwarding it to the list
    4:33:36Jiri Kovalsky But if I understand it correctly, it mainly affects messages send via http://forums.netbeans.org, not?
    4:34:07Jiri Kovalsky I thought that Wade's complain was mainly about missing Re: prefix in subjects.
    4:34:40amelongo Yes, it affects all the lists: nbusers, nbdev, nbopenide, nbdiscusss....
    4:35:35amelongo Yes, the complaint was about that and about the fact that message aren't appended the context link. As of now, some are and some aren't
    4:37:38Jiri Kovalsky OK, so nabble.com works fine, e-mails send via normal e-mail clients work also fine so the only problem is the forum. Both "Re:" prefix and links are missing. Right?
    4:37:59amelongo Yes.
    4:38:42Jiri Kovalsky Fine, so right now Jan Pirek (our only web master ) is responsible for this.
    4:38:52amelongo I don't understand why some have a context linked appended to them and some don't
    4:40:02Jiri Kovalsky I think context links have only those messages that we sent via nabble.com web interface.
    4:40:40Jiri Kovalsky I have discussed this with Jan and he said he should be able to fix this. However, right now he is working full steam on "refer-a-friend" download campain.
    4:41:27Jiri Kovalsky So his plan is to find some cycles when this ends. Which means second decade of March probably.
    4:41:54amelongo Sometimes, it happens also one replies to a post and the original message is missing. So that feature would really be nice to have to that with one click, one can see all the threads associated with the posts instead of going to nabble.com and searching it there.
    4:43:29Jiri Kovalsky Just to be sure, can you Melongo send a screenshot(s) clearly showing the problem to VOC alias?
    4:44:13Jiri Kovalsky And finally, have you seen complain about this somebody else than Wade?
    4:44:25amelongo Yes, I will do that. I will forward you "good" posts and "bad" ones; so you can see what I mean.
    4:44:43Jiri Kovalsky Great, thank you!
    4:47:00Jiri Kovalsky Anything else Melongo?
    4:47:08amelongo Yes, sometimes, people posts messages and ask how to find so and so posts. I ran personally into that issue while trying to find the threads associated with a post; so when Wade posted that issue, I knew exactly what he was talking about.
    4:47:52amelongo Other than that, I have issues associated with the beta release that aren't relevant as of now
    4:48:06Jiri Kovalsky Beta of what?
    4:48:42amelongo 6.7; it was about "Ergonomic IDE"
    4:49:19Jiri Kovalsky Oh, why are you convinced it's not relevant? I have seen Adam Bien's post about Ergonomics IDE.
    4:50:32amelongo It's not relevant because it was suggestions about how to make it better. Since it's just in its initial release, it's better to see how everybody reacts to that before pushing an issue.
    4:52:03amelongo Also, I ask him to file that issue and I have seen any link yet about it
    4:52:07Jiri Kovalsky OK, so please keep watching community for this really important feature. Just a reminder: it concerns only Full Distribution of the IDE.
    4:52:40Jiri Kovalsky If you don't have anything else I have one question. Was there any follow-up as for the "space-in-path" issue which Ryan de Laplante forwarded to us? Were you able to reproduce the problem or did the complainer get back to you with more information?
    4:53:29amelongo I think that issue was resolved.
    4:53:53Jiri Kovalsky How?
    4:54:28amelongo wait, I'll find out
    4:56:06Jiri Kovalsky Oh, just for the record, it was not Adam Bien's post but Adam Myatt's :-) Sorry Adams! http://pronetbeans.com/archives/115
    4:57:18amelongo Here's  the link: #46813 Also, Tushar made of simulation of the issue and it works fine. So I don't know what this man was talking about.
    4:59:03Jiri Kovalsky But have somebody contacted him for more information? That's the point of VOC - to show community that we are active and always give feedback to the source.
    5:00:02amelongo Contacted who? The man who made that remark was posting something in some blog and Ryan forwarded us the posting... so there was nobody to contact
    5:00:40Jiri Kovalsky Yes, I mean the originator (i.e. not Ryan).
    5:01:16amelongo You want me to go to that blog and let him know that the feature is working on NB?
    5:01:26hmichel joined the conversation
    5:01:47hmichel Hi guys
    5:01:56Jiri Kovalsky Well, I see that Tushar already approached him [2]
    5:02:00Jiri Kovalsky [2] http://weblogs.java.net/blog/joconner/archive/2009/02/netbeans_65_sti.html
    5:02:26Jiri Kovalsky But it would be good to find current status anyway if he got it work etc.
    5:02:40Jiri Kovalsky Hi Michel, we are just finishing.
    5:03:15hmichel Really?
    5:03:45hmichel ops, I think daylight saving changed here, and I forgot to update the timezone
    5:03:57Jiri Kovalsky Yes. I am sorry about it.
    5:04:31Jiri Kovalsky Melongo, so can you contact John O'Conner and ask him about it?
    5:07:47Jiri Kovalsky The last thing I wanted to mention today is that it would be great if you watch progress of issues we have already talked about in the past so that it really ends up in some resolution unless there is a strong obstacle (e.g. no resources etc.)
    5:08:41Jiri Kovalsky Or Michel can you be the one who asks John about his "space-in-path" problems?
    5:10:40hmichel I need to test that problem deeper. I can't reproduce it, and I am watching the problem. I saw the messages at weblog and I will investigate it better. If necessary, I can contact John about it
    5:11:14Jiri Kovalsky Yes, please do so. Melongo seems busy right now.
    5:11:38Jiri Kovalsky BTW, did you have anything important for today's chat?
    5:12:01Jiri Kovalsky If so, you can send it to our voc@netbeans.org mailing list anytime!
    5:12:04hmichel no problem. The only thing I noticed was the same Tushar said before, about scanning
    5:12:21amelongo left the conversation
    5:12:38Jiri Kovalsky OK. Great then. You will be able to read our conversation from the transcript.
    5:13:40Jiri Kovalsky So, thanks for coming and have a nice day guys!


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