Transcript of Voice of Community chat

Topic: VOC meeting #2
Date: January 23rd, 2009
Time: 3:00 PM Central European Time
Duration: 1 hour
Conversation: netbeans
Chat Client: NetBeans Developer Collaboration module
Participants:
  • Michel Graciano (Brazil)
  • Melongo Annabel (USA)
  • Jiri Kovalsky (Czech Republic)

  • Agenda:

    1. Past two weeks, how much time spent on VOC?
    2. Any outstanding VOC issues found?
    3. NetBeans Ergonomics
    4. Eclipse plan for 2009
    5. Recognition page: photos and motto/mission needed

    Minutes:

  • #100758 found as VOC issue
  • Michel's Beans Binding issue needs follow-up
  • Action items:

  • Jiri to fight for #100758
  • Michel to report Beans Binding and ask for community support to find out overall impact
  • Melongo to send to Jiri URL of defective DB tutorial
  • Michel, Melongo & Tushar to send to Jiri photos + motto or message to community
  • 3:59:57amelongo joined the conversation
    4:00:07hmichel joined the conversation
    4:00:11Jiri Kovalsky Hi Melongo!
    4:00:19Jiri Kovalsky Hi Michel!
    4:00:20amelongo Hi Michel
    4:00:22hmichel Hi guys
    4:00:47Jiri Kovalsky Great to see you both here, what a shame Tushar can't make it.
    4:01:14Jiri Kovalsky Anyway, how have you been in the past two weeks?
    4:01:43amelongo I've been extremely busy this week. Also I was in DC for the inauguration
    4:02:07hmichel I am back from vacation this week, so, a lot of things here this time
    4:02:09Jiri Kovalsky Oh really?! That's great!
    4:02:34hmichel I am reading some conversations on mainling lists but no time to see the details
    4:02:52Jiri Kovalsky @Michel: I know how returns from vacations are extremely demanding. There is nothing like free "vacation".
    4:03:36Jiri Kovalsky So, how much time were you able to dedicate to VOC during last two weeks in total guys?
    4:03:53hmichel my focus this time will be Matisse, editor and javaebeans support
    4:04:22hmichel I did some hours just this week, probably 2 hours per day
    4:04:51Jiri Kovalsky Oh, you mean 5*2 hours this week?
    4:05:05Jiri Kovalsky That's very good actually!
    4:05:26hmichel yes, it is normal since I read a lot of mails and issues
    4:05:40amelongo I spent most of last week reading the forums, blogs and mailing lists. It took me about 5hrs. This week I haven't been able to do all that; I've been taken by something else. I can say that I only spent 2 hours reading the Netbeans mailing list only. I will catch up the next weeks. I promise
    4:06:25hmichel I am subscribed on several issues mainling lists, I like to keep my eyes on the next steps
    4:07:21Jiri Kovalsky @Melongo: That's okay, VOC has just taken off. We all are learning on the fly ... right?
    4:07:41hmichel yes, I agree
    4:07:48Jiri Kovalsky @Michel: That's clever approach worth professional spies.
    4:08:38Jiri Kovalsky OK, so let's start with what you found. Do you have something that you consider serious enough to become an official VOC issue?
    4:09:46Jiri Kovalsky BTW, today's agenda is shared now ...
    4:09:57hmichel in my humble opinion, there is a really important issue that is http://netbeans.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=100758
    4:10:25Jiri Kovalsky Oh, it has 12 votes.
    4:10:41Jiri Kovalsky Have you seen this Melongo?
    4:11:06hmichel The motivation came from http://wiki.netbeans.org/Beans_90907Experiment
    4:11:27amelongo Last week I discovered that someone wanted to use the DB plugin in Netbeans but The tutorial didn't advice the user to first install that plugin and how to download or find it.
    4:12:08Jiri Kovalsky OK, let's focus on Beans Refactoring case for now.
    4:12:29Jiri Kovalsky What do you think about it Melongo?
    4:13:46amelongo Yes I find it a real issue. I think the field should be rename in the refactoring process. I give it my vote too.
    4:14:06amelongo Sorry the methods, not the fields
    4:14:50hmichel in the truth, I think the refactoring should have a option to rename just the field or if it should be considered a property (refactoring field and methods)
    4:15:00Jiri Kovalsky Michel, have you seen this reported outside of IssueZilla as well?
    4:15:45hmichel I can't remember it know, but it was argued a time ago, when the beans support was removed
    4:16:14hmichel I started flames on mainling lists and Wade Chandler and other guys came to help me to bring it back
    4:16:34hmichel it was at 6.0 times
    4:16:43hmichel when the editor was refactored
    4:17:13hmichel I need to search about these things, but I remember some weblogs and messages about it at that time
    4:18:44hmichel this is really necessary, maily for people like me, develop a lot of Swing components, when we need to use JavaBeans patterns, but several other frameworks use this patterns extenssively like Hibernate, genesis and so on
    4:19:04Jiri Kovalsky But the question is if it is still as valid as before Bean Info Editor was implemented back (#122094).
    4:20:08hmichel yes, it is valid because BeanInfo editor just create the BeanInfo class, no support to refactoring properties is implemented yet
    4:21:10Jiri Kovalsky OK, I have no strong opinion about this so I will have a talk with David Strupl about it.
    4:21:34Jiri Kovalsky What's next Michel?
    4:21:56hmichel every time we need to rename an field, manually we need to rename the accessors methods, which is painful and error prone
    4:22:20hmichel and, as you mentioned, the bean info should be refactored as well
    4:22:40hmichel I need to update and add more details to this issue, but it is really necessary
    4:23:36Jiri Kovalsky I agree with you. Please elaborate your usecases in the issue. My action item is to persuade David to implement this.
    4:23:40amelongo I think I understand what Michel is saying. He wants to refactor to be done on the setter and getter of a field when that field changes
    4:24:07Jiri Kovalsky Fine. Let's move to the next item.
    4:24:13hmichel another thing is really important, talking about Matisse, is a way to extend the visual editor
    4:24:30hmichel I think there is no issue yet, I will search about it
    4:24:45hmichel for example, talking about binding for Swing components
    4:25:00Jiri Kovalsky Is this what Michael Santos Nascimento is complaining about for a long time?
    4:25:35hmichel I think so, because we work on the same open source project and tring to implement some things for Matisse
    4:26:18amelongo I would suggest why don't we add a refactoring for a method, so that if a user changes a field name, then he would manually refactor the setter and getter methods as well, instead of having it done automatically by NB
    4:27:27Jiri Kovalsky Melongo, why don't you add this as a comment to that issue #100758?
    4:27:39amelongo Ok, I will
    4:27:51hmichel today, there is a tab for Binding in Matisse properties editor, but it is just for Beans Binding support
    4:28:58Jiri Kovalsky @Michel: If you want that extensibility issue be considered as VOC issue it must exist in IssueZilla and you must find wider support for it.
    4:29:06Jiri Kovalsky Are you able to satisfy these conditions?
    4:29:17hmichel we need to think a way to make the Matisse editor extenssible, making possible for other open source projects inject features to IDE
    4:29:38hmichel Yes, I know the steps, and this should be considered too
    4:29:51Jiri Kovalsky Great, I know what you are talking about from NetCAT 5.0 times ...
    4:30:15hmichel I will create a propose, even for future consideration, but it should be done one day
    4:30:28hmichel maybe it is time to see if it is really important or not
    4:33:23Jiri Kovalsky Yes, file this and ask community for support. But please try to be objective (forgetting about Michael who will be looking over your shoulder).
    4:34:15Jiri Kovalsky Anything else Michel?
    4:34:20hmichel don't worry, I know about how complex this change is
    4:34:43hmichel not for today, I need to read more to see what could be done
    4:34:51Jiri Kovalsky Great, thanks for your honesty!
    4:35:10Jiri Kovalsky Do you have more items for today Michel?
    4:36:14hmichel @Jiri [OFF]: Do you know about patch 2 release?
    4:36:29Jiri Kovalsky Yes, it's already staged.
    4:36:37Jiri Kovalsky What would you like to know?
    4:36:46Jiri Kovalsky It's being tested right now.
    4:36:48hmichel I have some candidates, but I just forgot and I think I need to wait for patch 3
    4:36:58Jiri Kovalsky Yes, I am sorry.
    4:37:06hmichel ok, no problemo
    4:37:17Jiri Kovalsky Is it all Michel?
    4:37:34hmichel I think I have no more points for today, maybe melogo have some things
    4:37:46Jiri Kovalsky Sure thing. Melongo?
    4:38:40amelongo Yes, last week someone was just complaining that he couldn't browse for data from his db
    4:39:42amelongo The reason was that the person hasn't install the db plugin allowing him to do that; and the reason he couldn't do that is because the netbeans tutorial didn't mention it
    4:40:05Jiri Kovalsky OK, do you have the URL?
    4:40:15amelongo this isn't about any code that has to be implemented, it's about the netbeans tutorial that should reflect that information
    4:40:24hmichel I guess DB support is already available for basic Java IDE, which IDE distro he had?
    4:40:47hmichel and which database (Oracle, JavaDB) he try to use?
    4:41:10amelongo Like I said it's not about the DB support it's about the information on the tutorial on how to use it.
    4:41:29Jiri Kovalsky I understand hence I wanted to know the URL of that tutorial.
    4:41:43amelongo I asked him to put this issue on Issuezilla and I haven't checked if he did
    4:42:16Jiri Kovalsky Great, what is the source of this? Is it a complain from nbusers? Or some blog?
    4:42:20amelongo Do you want me to give it to you now or later? I don't have it
    4:42:38amelongo The source is from the mailing list
    4:42:45Jiri Kovalsky It's enough to send to voc@netbeans.org later of course.
    4:42:55Jiri Kovalsky Was it just one person facing this?
    4:43:27amelongo I think there were a lot of people who didn't know about installing the plugin first
    4:43:34Jiri Kovalsky Anyway, this should be easy to fix. So all we need is the issue in IssueZilla.
    4:43:47amelongo Yes
    4:44:01Jiri Kovalsky Do you accept this as your action item?
    4:44:25amelongo Yes. I will check if he puts the issue on Issuella and if not, I will add it.
    4:44:41Jiri Kovalsky Great. Anything else Melongo?
    4:45:44amelongo No that's all I have
    4:46:14Jiri Kovalsky OK, thanks.
    4:46:24Jiri Kovalsky Now I have two more items from the agenda.
    4:48:07Jiri Kovalsky Firstly, I wanted to point you to new Eclipse marketing plans for 2009 [1] published 2 days ago at DZone. Just make yourself familiar with that and let me know if you think some action from our side is needed. [1] http://eclipse.dzone.com/articles/plans-2009
    4:48:43Jiri Kovalsky Secondly, have you heard of Ergonomics feature before? It's been integrated into latest daily builds.
    4:49:11hmichel yes, I know about it
    4:49:18hmichel Jarda is working on it, right?
    4:49:25Jiri Kovalsky It's explained here: http://wiki.netbeans.org/FitnessForever
    4:49:35Jiri Kovalsky Yes, it's recent Yarda's project.
    4:50:37Jiri Kovalsky The reason I am mentioning this is that if you hear some feedback about this from community, please let us know as soon as possible. This is a fundamental change and we want to be sure it's accepted well by community.
    4:51:11Jiri Kovalsky OK?
    4:51:22hmichel no problems
    4:51:46amelongo Ok. I haven't heard about ergonomics before. But I'll should start being interested in that
    4:51:59Jiri Kovalsky Great, thanks.
    4:52:20Jiri Kovalsky My final item on the agenda is a bit off-topic.
    4:52:51Jiri Kovalsky I am working on a page unveiling our top community contributors - some kind of a recognition page.
    4:53:08Jiri Kovalsky I would like to have also VOC captains mentioned there.
    4:54:14Jiri Kovalsky And that's why I would like to ask you for some personal info: a photo and your message to the NetBeans community or motivation or mission whatever.
    4:54:28Jiri Kovalsky And of course your permission to publish this.
    4:54:41Jiri Kovalsky Do you have a problem with this?
    4:54:51amelongo No problem
    4:54:53hmichel no problems for me
    4:55:55amelongo Should it be a password like picture and any picture? Also the mission, should it be java or netbeans related or anything someone stands in life?
    4:56:07Jiri Kovalsky I found some photos on Internet but could you please send it to me via private e-mail together with your 1 sentence (couple of words) long message?
    4:56:32Jiri Kovalsky Whatever you want Melongo.
    4:56:50hmichel I need just think about the message and try to find one publishable photo
    4:57:06Jiri Kovalsky It can be a statement why you joined NB community, why you decided to contribute, what is your life motto etc.
    4:57:27amelongo Ok, I will email it.
    4:57:28hmichel I will sent it next week, is it ok?
    4:57:40Jiri Kovalsky Great. I would appreciate if you give me a unique photo other than what you have published elsewhere.
    4:57:58Jiri Kovalsky Absolutely, next week is fine of course.
    4:58:26Jiri Kovalsky Fine, do you have some questions for me guys?
    4:58:53amelongo I would just asked is it a way you can mail us the agenda days in advance?
    4:58:53hmichel I don't think so
    4:59:21Jiri Kovalsky OK, good suggestion Melongo. I will try to do a better job next time.
    4:59:45amelongo Maybe in this way the meeting will go faster; because we would know by then what to say and what is expected
    5:00:02Jiri Kovalsky Yes, I would expect the same from you.
    5:00:17Jiri Kovalsky Just like Michel sent the issue in advance, ok?
    5:00:23Jiri Kovalsky So are we done for today?
    5:00:31amelongo I think so
    5:00:40hmichel I think so
    5:01:17Jiri Kovalsky Cool then, I consider our chat as productive. I will inform you on my internal discussions about the VOC issues.
    5:01:27Jiri Kovalsky Thanks for your time and help guys!
    5:01:45amelongo When is the next meeting?
    5:01:53Jiri Kovalsky Our next meeting is scheduled for February 6th, 2008 4:00 p.m. CET.
    5:02:05Jiri Kovalsky Until then have a nice time.
    5:02:09amelongo Great. have a nice day
    5:02:22Jiri Kovalsky You too. Enjoy the weekend! Bye.
    5:02:27hmichel HAve a nice day guys. See you soon
    5:02:37amelongo left the conversation


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