Transcript of Voice of Community kick-off chat

Topic: VOC process defining chat
Date: January 8th, 2009
Time: 3:00 PM Central European Time
Duration: 1 hour
Conversation: netbeans
Chat Client: NetBeans Developer Collaboration module
Participants:
  • Tushar Joshi (India)
  • Michel Graciano (Brazil)
  • Melongo Annabel (USA)
  • Jiri Kovalsky (Czech Republic)

  • 2:59:53hmichel joined the conversation
    2:59:56amelongo joined the conversation
    2:59:57Jiri Kovalsky joined the conversation
    3:00:07hmichel hi jiri
    3:00:17Jiri Kovalsky Hello guys!
    3:00:22amelongo Hi
    3:00:36Jiri Kovalsky Hm, looks like Tushar didn't make it.
    3:00:53tusharvjoshi joined the conversation
    3:00:53Jiri Kovalsky Oh, he is online!
    3:00:59Jiri Kovalsky Hello Tushar!
    3:01:05tusharvjoshi Hello All
    3:01:12amelongo Hello Tushar
    3:01:17Jiri Kovalsky I am very happy to meet you online today during our kick-off chat dedicated to defining the VOC initiative in more detail.
    3:01:17hmichel Hello again
    3:01:32Jiri Kovalsky Let me share with you the agenda.
    3:01:56Jiri Kovalsky Does everyone see it?
    3:02:07amelongo yes I see it.
    3:02:19tusharvjoshi I can
    3:02:21hmichel yes
    3:02:31Jiri Kovalsky Great, how are you, by the way?
    3:02:55amelongo I fine and excited...
    3:03:24hmichel Really cool, just enjoying the vacation now
    3:03:31tusharvjoshi I am good, curious to work on the next steps
    3:03:52hmichel and yo
    3:04:07hmichel and you?
    3:04:14Jiri Kovalsky I hope you are fine and looking forward to the brand new process you will have a unique opportunity to shape!
    3:04:42Jiri Kovalsky I am good as well. Very relaxed after the Christmas break.
    3:05:00Jiri Kovalsky So, let's pick the first item in the agenda.
    3:05:13tusharvjoshi ok
    3:05:51Jiri Kovalsky It is period of service. I would like to hear your opinions on the time you would like to serve as VOC captains.
    3:06:10Jiri Kovalsky What is your preference? 1 year or just a half a year?
    3:06:11tusharvjoshi Shall we align the period of service with the release schedule of NetBeans?
    3:06:26amelongo I will opt for one year
    3:06:44Jiri Kovalsky Well, this is tricky. Length of NetBeans releases might vary.
    3:07:12Jiri Kovalsky Some take 6 months, some 1+ year just like NetBeans 6.0.
    3:07:39hmichel I really like the Tushar idea
    3:08:04Jiri Kovalsky Which means one release?
    3:08:05hmichel but jiri is right, there is no fixed period for nb releases
    3:08:25tusharvjoshi Can we know the tentative date of NetBeans 7.0
    3:08:43tusharvjoshi If it is 6 months from now then it shall be 6 months period of service
    3:09:44hmichel I understand that 'one release' is the next release of IDE, both major or minor releases
    3:09:52Jiri Kovalsky Yes, we aim to have FCS out there in mid June.
    3:10:20tusharvjoshi I am open for the 1 year period also
    3:10:30amelongo Why should we bind the voc Captains work with a Netbeans release?
    3:10:42tusharvjoshi this way we will be working past NetBeans 7.0 also for some time
    3:11:11tusharvjoshi I thought that way after reading the description of the VOC concept for getting priority bugs fixed first by reading the community voice
    3:12:51hmichel I understand that captains should try to integrate community wishes on the IDE, so, changing the captains probably will refresh the priorities, and I understand this changes are better after a release is closed.
    3:12:59Jiri Kovalsky OK, if we take 1 year then it would mean calendar year. And I would organize another call for captains in December 2009.
    3:13:31hmichel btw, I had no problem with both periods
    3:13:33tusharvjoshi This also sounds good and convinient
    3:13:46tusharvjoshi Jan to Dec
    3:13:54hmichel yes
    3:13:58amelongo that's fine for me
    3:14:03Jiri Kovalsky Yep. Look like we have an agreement.
    3:14:40Jiri Kovalsky Now hard part. What if some of you want to resign or will not have time for the VOC?
    3:15:06Jiri Kovalsky I think resignation is okay anytime, right?
    3:15:34tusharvjoshi Yes I also think resignation is Ok, there may be surcumstances beyond ones control
    3:16:03hmichel yes, it is true
    3:16:32amelongo You don't have someone on the waiting list? for example the people who suscribe to be captain but who were not chosen... Personally, I will make it to the end unless something really bad happens...
    3:16:44tusharvjoshi So if one of us withdraws, can we call for another person to join and take the place in between?
    3:17:19tusharvjoshi Yes, it is also a good idea to keep the fourth shortlisted person in mind
    3:17:35Jiri Kovalsky And what if the latter happens? Would it be okay to replace some VOC captain who becames unresponsive for some reason?
    3:18:34Jiri Kovalsky I have more candidates of course. I just want to know if replacement is possible after certain time and under what circumstances.
    3:18:46tusharvjoshi In My Opinion it is ok, the project shlould be active through all the participants
    3:19:00hmichel I just don't see any problem about replacement
    3:19:33Jiri Kovalsky OK, so what do you consider a maximum inactivity period?
    3:19:39hmichel we know that problem can happen for anyone, and the show must go on
    3:20:02hmichel jiri, there is similar rules for netcat?
    3:20:27Jiri Kovalsky No. NetCAT was based on CAT points system and not time.
    3:20:46amelongo I would suggest, you get personal phone numbers and if a participant is inactive, try to first email and then call and if after those two attempts fail, we give the captain a period of one month to be responsive and if we still don't hear from him/her, then you can make a replacement.
    3:21:17Jiri Kovalsky I was also thinking about 1 month.
    3:21:25tusharvjoshi I think inactivity of 15 or 30  days is enough to gauge that the member has become inactive,
    3:21:46tusharvjoshi 1 month it is then
    3:21:56Jiri Kovalsky I personally think that 2 weeks is too strict.
    3:22:33hmichel i agree, 1 month is ok, at least because sometimes we need to travel, and one or 2 weeks is really short
    3:23:12Jiri Kovalsky Great, so are you Tushar and Michel comfortable with providing me your phone numbers?
    3:23:18tusharvjoshi I am also ok with 1 month, and we will always notify the list about our absense for some period while travelling
    3:23:43hmichel no problems for me
    3:23:50Jiri Kovalsky Mine is +420 *** *** ***
    3:24:01tusharvjoshi Tushar Joshi, +91-***-***-**** it is all over the Net already
    3:24:14amelongo do you have mine, Jiri?
    3:24:29Jiri Kovalsky Don't worry, I will replace the numbers with *** in the transcript.
    3:24:45Jiri Kovalsky Not yet.
    3:25:13amelongo My phone is 001-***-***-****
    3:25:29hmichel +55 ** ********
    3:25:41Jiri Kovalsky Great, thank you gentlemen!
    3:26:04Jiri Kovalsky Now, let's move to the next item in the agenda: list moderation.
    3:27:10Jiri Kovalsky Would somebody of you be willing to help me with moderating the VOC list? We can expect many feedback soon that will require moderation.
    3:27:44Jiri Kovalsky Or we can open the list for anyone just like it is with nbusers@ for example.
    3:28:00amelongo what tasks does it require?
    3:28:53Jiri Kovalsky Each post from a non-subscriber generates an moderation request e-mail. You open that e-mail, verify that it is not a spam and approve it.
    3:29:03tusharvjoshi do you feel the list can get abused or spammed by making it open like nbusers?
    3:29:29Jiri Kovalsky 10 seconds per 1 request. But there will hopefully be tens of e-mails soon.
    3:30:01Jiri Kovalsky No, but I setup the list as private so that only we 4 can post there freely.
    3:30:46tusharvjoshi Ok so that means the list is unmoderated for us 4, and moderated for the world
    3:31:12tusharvjoshi In that case I feel people from different time zones can better manage the moderation requests
    3:31:35Jiri Kovalsky If somebody contributes there often I can put him/her among allowed posters which will not generate the moderation requests.
    3:31:56Jiri Kovalsky Yes, that's why I wanted to distribute the moderation.
    3:32:25tusharvjoshi I am open to help in moderation
    3:32:50Jiri Kovalsky We would need somebody from America and Asia as I can cover Europe and Africa timezones.
    3:33:51tusharvjoshi I am from Asia, India for most of the times, I travel from USA to NZ but those will be one or two weeks
    3:34:23amelongo I'm living in America. I can do that.
    3:34:26Jiri Kovalsky That's great.
    3:34:27hmichel left the conversation
    3:34:41Jiri Kovalsky Looks like we lost Michel.
    3:35:37amelongo I think he has connection issues...
    3:36:05tusharvjoshi yes may be and in that case he may connect in a short while again
    3:36:40Jiri Kovalsky OK, so Melongo covers America, Tushar has Asia and I will be responsible for Europe and Africa.
    3:37:01amelongo Great
    3:37:22tusharvjoshi Please note my gtalk id as well "tusharvjoshi" for such disconnections
    3:37:41Jiri Kovalsky OK, thanks.
    3:38:17Jiri Kovalsky Cool, so what about meetings? In my humble opinion we don't need to meet weekly.
    3:38:45Jiri Kovalsky What is your preference? Once in 2 or 3 weeks?
    3:38:58tusharvjoshi Yes we can meet bi-weekly and if something comes up which is urgent we can call for a meeting
    3:39:11amelongo I think so too. I has to wake-up really early today... bi-weekly will be ok... and preferably during the week-end
    3:39:57Jiri Kovalsky What is your local time Melongo?
    3:39:58tusharvjoshi yes and what about the preferred time?
    3:40:17amelongo right now is 8:40 am
    3:40:22tusharvjoshi I am GMT+5.30
    3:40:56Jiri Kovalsky So it's 9:10 p.m. there?
    3:41:12tusharvjoshi 8.10 pm here
    3:41:49Jiri Kovalsky Oh, yes. I am not in GMT. Had too little coffee today ...
    3:42:35Jiri Kovalsky So what is your preference guys? Melongo wants to have it 1 hour later while Tushar wants the opposite?
    3:43:13tusharvjoshi I am ok with any time
    3:43:18amelongo Why don't we do it during the week-end? That's why it doesn't matter anymore for me...
    3:43:35tusharvjoshi Let us hear from Melongo first
    3:43:55Jiri Kovalsky Hm, weekend is problematic for me because I have 3 kids and 1 wife who want me to be with them. :-)
    3:44:36amelongo what about fridays?
    3:44:38Jiri Kovalsky But if we can't find suitable time during working days I will have to somehow manage it.
    3:45:17Jiri Kovalsky In my opinion we should first try to find best time, not?
    3:45:35amelongo The reason it's problematic for me is that generally during this time, I'm working. But today I'm not.
    3:46:21Jiri Kovalsky I see and what time is best on Friday?
    3:46:33tusharvjoshi So is 9 or 9.30 a good time for you Melongo?
    3:46:56amelongo What about 6pm on fridays?
    3:47:29Jiri Kovalsky What timezone?
    3:48:33amelongo I really don't know the time zone. It will be 6pm Central Time.
    3:48:59Jiri Kovalsky It think it would be too late for Tushar.
    3:49:12tusharvjoshi it is 4am for me
    3:49:29Jiri Kovalsky Oh! What about 4:00 p.m. CET
    3:49:46Jiri Kovalsky How are Fridays different for you Melongo?
    3:50:15tusharvjoshi 4pm CET means just like today but one hour late
    3:50:27Jiri Kovalsky Yes.
    3:50:47amelongo On friday, it's really relax at the office, so I can be participating in the chat without being summoned...
    3:51:44Jiri Kovalsky I see. So what do say to my proposal of Fridays at 4:00 p.m. CET (9:00 a.m. your time)?
    3:52:18amelongo It's fine. Fridays 4.pm CET
    3:52:33tusharvjoshi Fine with me also
    3:52:39Jiri Kovalsky Great! Let's hope this will be acceptable for Michel as well!
    3:53:05Jiri Kovalsky Now, do you have problems with publishing transcripts of our conversations?
    3:53:20amelongo I think so. He lives in Brazil and the time there might not be that different from mine. Let's hope the time will work for him as well.
    3:53:45Jiri Kovalsky I agree. What about transcripts?
    3:53:54amelongo I don't have any problem with publishing transcripts.
    3:54:07Jiri Kovalsky OK, Tushar?
    3:54:11tusharvjoshi Same with me, no issues to make them public
    3:54:49Jiri Kovalsky Remember, everyone of us has a Veto right so you will be able to deny publishing in any case.
    3:55:27Jiri Kovalsky I see that we have already done 5 out of 6 items on the agenda.
    3:55:40amelongo Great.
    3:55:55Jiri Kovalsky So, let's move to the last one: do you prefer deviding functionality&channels by individuals?
    3:56:26Jiri Kovalsky Like one will mostly read blogs, another one will monitor nbusers ...
    3:56:37amelongo I think it would be nice.
    3:56:58tusharvjoshi We can choose main areas, and still keep working on all the areas
    3:57:19Jiri Kovalsky Or somebody will focus on NetBeans Core features, another person will cover infrastructure or J2EE...
    3:57:41Jiri Kovalsky Frankly I would rather be realistic.
    3:58:15amelongo Is it a way you can list the different functionalities and channels?
    3:59:23Jiri Kovalsky Well, basically I was thinking about channels as http://wiki.netbeans.org/VoiceOfCommunity#ref-VoiceOfCommunity-1
    4:00:12Jiri Kovalsky And areas divided only to NetBeans Platform, J2EE support and J2ME support. Any other suggestion?
    4:01:20tusharvjoshi I have preference of blogs and mailing list as channel, and core and platform area
    4:02:11amelongo I would go for J2EE and J2ME support then
    4:02:29Jiri Kovalsky BTW, Michel wrote to me that he was facing an energy outage in his city so he can't join us today.
    4:02:50Jiri Kovalsky Great, and J2SE will be hopefully covered by Michel.
    4:03:04Jiri Kovalsky What channels do you prefer Melongo?
    4:03:31amelongo What other channels do you have?
    4:04:05Jiri Kovalsky In total we have nbusers@netbeans.org mailing list, netbeans chat, blogs, forums (DZone, ServerSide)
    4:04:05tusharvjoshi they are theserverside and dzone forums
    4:04:25Jiri Kovalsky Yes, and maybe also this chat.
    4:05:29amelongo I would like chat, blogs and forums
    4:05:44Jiri Kovalsky Cool, thanks!
    4:05:59Jiri Kovalsky We are little over time but did what was planned for today.
    4:06:19Jiri Kovalsky Do you have any questions for me before we leave the room?
    4:06:52tusharvjoshi I think we can continue discussion on the mailing list
    4:07:00amelongo I was just wondering how are people going to send suggestions to us if the mailing list is private?
    4:07:02Jiri Kovalsky That's right.
    4:07:11tusharvjoshi I have no specific questions here
    4:07:52Jiri Kovalsky They can send it to the voc@netbeans.org list but we will have to approve their posts. That's all.
    4:08:18amelongo Ok. Then I don't have any question anymore. Thanks.
    4:08:19Jiri Kovalsky And the archive is accessible from web.
    4:08:30tusharvjoshi ok
    4:08:32Jiri Kovalsky So are we done for today?
    4:08:53amelongo Yes. It was my pleasure meeting with you all.
    4:08:58tusharvjoshi Yes, thanks for this meeting Jiri (Is is Jiri or Jirka?)
    4:09:24Jiri Kovalsky Mine too! Well, Jiri is formal. You can call me Jirka!
    4:10:03Jiri Kovalsky Next meeting is scheduled for 1/23! Have a nice time guys!
    4:10:12amelongo Thanks. You to


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    $Date: 2009/11/02 14:13:06 $ GMT

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