Transcript of NetCAT 7.1 Newcomers Welcome chat

Topic: NetCAT 7.1 Newcomers Welcome chat
Date: September 9th, 2011
Time: 8:00 PM Central European Time
Participants:
  • André Sabosch (Germany)
  • Cezariusz Marek (Poland)
  • Claus Lüthje (Switzerland)
  • Dmitry Danileyko (Russia)
  • Gualtiero Testa (Italy)
  • Jiří Kovalský (Czech Republic)
  • José Galaviz (Mexico)
  • Mario Pérez Madueño (Spain)
  • Marián Mirilovič (Czech Republic)
  • Matthieu Jung (France)
  • Medea Gugushvili (Georgia)
  • Michael Müller (Germany)
  • Michel Graciano (Brazil)
  • Paolo Scarabelli (Indonesia)
  • Pavel Selivanov (Russia)
  • Tim Sparg (South Africa)
  • Timon Veenstra (Netherlands)
  • Tushar Joshi (India)
  • Ulf Zibis (Germany)
  • Vibhuti Pithwa (India)
  • Yannis Pastis Glaros (Greece)

  • Agenda:

  • 1. Invitation, agenda, chat rules
  • 2. NetCAT basics
  • 3. Program schedule
  • 4. Roles, expectations
  • 5. Others: tribes, terms, CAT points
  • 6. Q&A
  • Transcript:

    20:01:15   * Jiří Kovalský invited asabosch claus.luethje dave.barber9391 dhawal.saiya drconstantin gualtiero.testa joseantonio.galaviz jungmat kelahcim_kela medeag michel.graciano mirilovicm monezz mperezmad narsereg paolosca2 pramnoshosting selivanov.pavel tim.sparg tusharvjoshi ulf-de vibhuti.pithwa willaguirre
    20:01:25   Jiří Kovalský: Hello folks
    20:01:43   Jiří Kovalský: Please stand by until I complete addition of all registered participants...
    20:01:44   Medea Gugushvili: hello (handshake)
    20:01:47   Cezariusz Marek: Hi Jiří, hi all.
    20:01:50   * Dave Barber left the chat (Only people who have accepted contact request can be added).
    20:01:53   Vibhuti Pithwa: hello
    20:01:58   Yannis Pastis Glaros: hi all
    20:02:04   André Sabosch: and another: hi all :)
    20:02:25   Timon Veenstra: hey
    20:03:16   Gualtiero Testa: hi
    20:03:24   * Jiří Kovalský invited rahul.coder
    20:03:29   José Galaviz: hello from mexico
    20:03:41   * Jiří Kovalský invited reynirhubner
    20:04:06   * Jiří Kovalský invited sawarkar.rohit28
    20:04:19   * Jiří Kovalský invited aldo.brucale
    20:04:18   Claus Luethje: hi all
    20:05:04   Jiří Kovalský: OK, so we have hopefully everyone. :)
    20:05:12   Dmitry Danileyko: hi
    20:05:36   Jiří Kovalský: OK, so once again good morning, hello, good evening - depending on your actual location on the Earth. I think we can finally kick-off the chat officially. :)
    20:05:49   Jiří Kovalský: Welcome everyone, I am very glad that so many new NetCAT participants joined us today even though the time is not optimal for many of you. In spite of this obstacle I believe that after ~1 hour you will find your participation beneficial.
    20:06:09   Paolo Scarabelli: Hi
    20:06:23   Jiří Kovalský: My name is Jiri Kovalsky and I am NetBeans Community Manager. As a member of NetBeans Quality Engineering (QE) team I am also responsible for quality of NetBeans Debugger. I joined NetBeans team in 2000.
    20:06:55   Jiří Kovalský: As you could have noticed we have one special guest today. I am very delighted to introduce you to Marian Mirilovic - NetBeans Quality Engineering manager and my boss who will be available to answer tough, controversial or other questions out of my scope. Am I right Marian? :)
    20:07:51   Jiří Kovalský: Great, so this is our agenda for this meeting:
    1. Invitation, agenda, chat rules
    2. NetCAT basics
    3. Program schedule
    4. Roles, expectations
    5. Others: tribes, terms, CAT points
    6. Q&A
    20:08:11   Jiří Kovalský: In order to avoid turning this chat into a chaos I would like to setup few simple rules. First of all I will try to moderate our discussion :) Secondly, whenever you will have a question about the topic, ask it immediately if there is no other unanswered question left. Otherwise it is hard to track the conversation and keep it productive. Smoking is exceptionally allowed this time. :D
    In the end there will be a Q&A section in the end of course. Finally, I wanted to inform you that our discussion is being saved and I will publish transcript hopefully over the weekend. That's all so fasten your seat belts ;) and let's get started. Any questions so far?
    20:10:50   Ulf Zibis: Hi from Cologne, Germany; I don't have any question, but I'm curious, what will be discussed here. Maybe something to laught at start: (mooning)
    20:11:30   Jiří Kovalský: Oh, I have never seen such an emoticon. :)
    20:11:43   Pavel Selivanov: hehe :) me too
    20:11:49   Jiří Kovalský: Great. If there are no other questions we can go on.
    20:12:03   Jiří Kovalský: 2. NetCAT basics
    I am sure majority of you have at least basic idea of what NetCAT is. NetCAT stands for NetBeans Community Acceptance Testing - a program whose purpose is to get NetBeans community test NetBeans IDE and accept the new release. So actually the NetCAT is nothing else than a Beta testing program and I must emphasize that it has become a very important part of stabilization phase. What is it so important about it?
    20:12:27   Jiří Kovalský: Firstly, you NetCAT participants use bleeding edge development builds on your real-world projects in your unique configurations and setups. This alone is something we cannot simulate no matter what.
    20:12:47   Jiří Kovalský: Secondly, you provide feedback early which often gives enough time to fix discovered defects prior to the final release. And it's not only about submitting bugs - many NetCAT participants also help with debugging and verification of fixes, review of documentation or even certification of milestone builds like Beta, RC or FCS!
    20:13:12   Jiří Kovalský: Am I too fast by the way or are you able to keep up? ;)
    20:13:24   Claus Luethje: keep going
    20:13:31   Vibhuti Pithwa: its fine
    20:13:37   Gualtiero Testa: ok for me
    20:13:46   Cezariusz Marek: Not too fast, you can continue.
    20:13:47   Jiří Kovalský: OK. :)
    20:13:50   Jiří Kovalský: And finally, since NetCAT team has an exceptional impact on quality of the release, many participants advertise the new version among their friends because after all it's also their success, right? :) This way you can contribute to even wider adoption of the IDE. By the way, did you know that as of this summer, NetBeans active users base has exceeded 1 million developers? ;)
    20:14:19   Gualtiero Testa: how do you measure it ?
    20:14:26   Jiří Kovalský: See here: http://kalali.me/nbusers-analysis
    20:14:44   Vibhuti Pithwa: Dats gr8..!!
    20:14:58   Jiří Kovalský: We measure it from server logs hosting our NetBeans Update Center.
    20:15:23   Jiří Kovalský: Whenever your IDE pings the server to check whether there are some updates it gets logged.
    20:15:48   Jiří Kovalský: And active user is everyone who does this at least twice. :)
    20:16:03   Jiří Kovalský: I.e. not only tries the IDE and never returns...
    20:16:11   Jiří Kovalský: Does it make sense?
    20:16:14   Medea Gugushvili: what info is logged? :P
    20:16:28   Jiří Kovalský: Hm, good question.
    20:16:32   Pavel Selivanov: yep, much better than just count downloads
    20:16:36   Jiří Kovalský: Unique IDE of your IDE.
    20:16:41   Cezariusz Marek: How do you recognize unique users, by IP or some random machine ID?
    20:16:44   Tim Sparg: how do you uniquley identify each IDE?
    20:17:08   Matthieu Jung: ip is not possible...
    20:17:09   Jiří Kovalský: No, every IDE computes its unique identifier number which gets logged.
    20:17:20   Tim Sparg: ok
    20:17:34   Claus Luethje: interesting
    20:17:59   Cezariusz Marek: Does the ID change, when NB is reinstalled and home directory cleaned?
    20:18:53   Jiří Kovalský: I think it's based on userdir. So, if you delete your userdir, you get new identifier. But I am not sure with this one. :(
    20:18:59   Claus Luethje: Do Alpha-/Beta-release count?
    20:19:21   Jiří Kovalský: Yes, also full IDE version gets logged.
    20:19:30   Jiří Kovalský: So we see trends...
    20:19:51   Jiří Kovalský: Anyway, let's move on. ;)
    20:20:02   Dmitry Danileyko: Yes move on
    20:20:12   Ulf Zibis: So some kind of Phoning-back, but it's ok for me! :)
    20:20:36   Jiří Kovalský: Great, thanks for your opinions and support.
    20:20:38   Jiří Kovalský: So, as you might have guessed, NetCAT is mostly about communication. That's why you can utilize our mailing list (netcat@netbeans.org) or web forum - whatever your preference is. Use these channels to discuss discovered problems with your NetCAT colleagues, ask for support (votes or reproduction), argue about priority, help each other, share knowledge etc. You can also use Wiki pages and as NetCAT participants you will not have to pass CAPTCHA verification! Another benefit is that you can file exception reports as bugs from the NetBeans IDE directly to Bugzilla! The most important thing is to provide feedback early and believe me when I say that we watch it carefully. After all, I will be writing weekly status reports on Tuesdays summarizing important achievements both for you and for our internal product meetings.
    20:21:20   Jiří Kovalský: I think this is pretty much what I wanted to say about NetCAT Basics "in short". :) Anybody wants to ask something?
    20:21:27   * Dhawal Saiya left the chat (Only people who have accepted contact request can be added).
    20:22:20   Dmitry Danileyko: That's clear
    20:22:35   Ulf Zibis: How do you feel in new Oracle environement?
    20:22:44   * Jiří Kovalský invited dhawal.saiya
    20:23:17   Jiří Kovalský: I can speak just for myself of course but if you want my honest answer I feel safe. :)
    20:23:27   Dhawal Saiya: hello all sorry for getting late...
    20:24:02   Dmitry Danileyko: Of course safe. So many lawyers )))
    20:24:27   Jiří Kovalský: Of course there are differences that we (former Sun employees) see strange and must simply get used to but such differences are normal in my opinion if such two giants merge into one. :)
    20:25:01   Jiří Kovalský: I mean safe in terms of job security.
    20:25:21   Jiří Kovalský: I am not a lawer Dmitry. :)
    20:25:27   Medea Gugushvili: glad for you and netbeans :D
    20:25:33   Medea Gugushvili: good thing that netbeans is safe and not killed by jdeveloper
    20:25:45   Jiří Kovalský: Yes, that's our primary goal.
    20:25:56   Dmitry Danileyko: let's go next question
    20:26:11   Jiří Kovalský: OK
    20:26:31   Jiří Kovalský: 3. Program schedule
    NetCAT program typically takes 3 months and NetCAT 7.1 is no different in this regard. So, what's ahead of us? First of all, we are stabilizing Beta, which is planned for the end of September. If I am not mistaken, Marian wants to ask you for help with its certification, right?
    20:27:14   Marián Mirilovič: hi all, right we would like to ask you for participation on testing NB 7.1 Beta, which will start next week
    20:27:52   Marián Mirilovič: I'll send more details at the beginning of the next week, stay tuned ...
    20:27:56   Jiří Kovalský: Fine. Around Beta release it would be great to create NetCAT Tribes i.e. small teams covering certain functionalities that will participate in certification of milestone builds. After Beta our docs team will have ready all tutorials for 7.1 requiring your review so this will be a chance to earn some CAT points. ;)
    20:28:12   Jiří Kovalský: Certification of 7.1 RC is scheduled to start on October 20 and we again decided to include weekend to provide you with better flexibility.
    20:28:35   Claus Luethje: What are CAT points for?
    20:28:41   Medea Gugushvili: how certification works?
    20:28:48   Jiří Kovalský: I will talk about it later Claus.
    20:29:03   Jiří Kovalský: About certification too.
    20:29:20   Medea Gugushvili: ok
    20:29:24   Gualtiero Testa: Should we stop to use nightly build versions and start to use the Beta version (when it will be available)?
    20:29:37   Pavel Selivanov: or install them separately?
    20:29:57   Matthieu Jung: good question
    20:30:26   Jiří Kovalský: Well, we would prefer if you rather stick to development builds prior to the Beta.
    20:30:40   Marián Mirilovič: 2Gualtiero: Yes, we will start to use Beta build once we branch it, but it will happen very close to Beta release day, so stay with development builds for now
    20:30:57   Matthieu Jung: ok
    20:31:03   Jiří Kovalský: And once Beta is released you can give it a test drive for few days.
    20:31:23   Matthieu Jung: ok
    20:31:26   Jiří Kovalský: OK. Close to the end of NetCAT, you will get a chance to evaluate the program itself and give me feedback. After that I will calculate activity of every NetCAT participants and the best contributors will be rewarded.
    20:31:45   Jiří Kovalský: Finally, I wanted to inform you that I will be on vacation during next two weeks with Marian covering me so please don't send me private e-mails between Sept 11th and Sept 22nd, because Marian suggested me to leave my notebook at home. ;) Oh, am I really able to do that?!! =:) Ideally please send your questions to the NetCAT mailing list. Thanks for your cooperation.
    20:31:55   Jiří Kovalský: Any questions so far?
    20:33:04   Marián Mirilovič: Exactly, vacation stands for spending time with family not with emails ;)
    20:33:37   Claus Luethje: 2Marian: I heard of that theory, too ;-)
    20:33:54   Jiří Kovalský: Nice comment Claus. ;)
    20:34:23   Mario Pérez Madueño: But may be also send some mail to family 8D
    20:34:44   Marián Mirilovič: 2claus: I am trying to transfer the theory into reality ;)
    20:34:48   Dmitry Danileyko: Programmers don't have vacations, they have remote work
    20:34:51   Mario Pérez Madueño: So keep your android with you 8D
    20:35:10   Jiří Kovalský: Yes, it's so difficult to resist.
    20:35:21   Claus Luethje: 2Marian: I'm interested to learn how it works out
    20:35:34   Jiří Kovalský: Anyway. let's go on.
    20:35:36   Jiří Kovalský: 4. Roles, expectations
    Fine, now who is doing what? Right now there are already over 100 subscribers on the netcat@netbeans.org list. Vast majority is you - NetCAT participants and the rest are NetBeans engineers: QE, developers, writers and also few managers. If you are interested, take a look at responsibilities of QE engineers: http://wiki.netbeans.org/NetCAT71SupportTeam This is the team that should give you support primarily - answer your questions, navigate you in Bugzilla etc. If you have any other problem in an area not listed on the Wiki page, just turn to me (or Marian in my absence). So this is basically what you can expect from us.
    20:36:16   Jiří Kovalský: And what do we expect from you? We would be thankful if you file good bug reports. This means to describe in detail what's wrong (including error messages) ideally with steps to reproduce, include screenshots if appropriate, attach possible exceptions or full thread dumps (http://wiki.netbeans.org/GenerateThreadDump) if IDE is deadlocked. Also specify your working environment: NetBeans build number, version of JDK and operating system. It would be nice if you cooperate with us in the bug report when asked for example by providing messages.log file or attaching sources (or project) exhibiting the bug. Plus we very much appreciate if you verify that bug is no longer there if it gets fixed.
    20:36:48   Jiří Kovalský: Last but not least, please stay loyal until the program ends. :) Thank you very much! Any questions to this topic?
    20:38:12   Marián Mirilovič: wanted to add .... please stay active, if you are asked for a feedback respond, if you are asked to provide more informations in BugZIlla please respond ... we understand you have your regular job and your participation is really highly highly appreciated !
    20:38:37   Timon Veenstra: I assume we get mail from bugzilla comments?
    20:38:44   Jiří Kovalský: Of course.
    20:38:53   Timon Veenstra: great :)
    20:38:53   Marián Mirilovič: if you are reporter or on CC of the bug yes
    20:39:47   Dhawal Saiya: definately staying active and respoding will help resolution faster :)
    20:40:23   Medea Gugushvili: avarage how much time does it take to put fix into the dayly build?
    20:40:29   Marián Mirilovič: exactly, thanks Dhaval!
    20:40:39   Dhawal Saiya: :)
    20:40:54   Jiří Kovalský: That's hard to say. It depends mainly on how hard is to fix the bug.
    20:40:56   Medea Gugushvili: i mean after fix
    20:41:04   Marián Mirilovič: depends on priority and severity of bug, P1s in day/two, P2s week/s ....
    20:41:11   Medea Gugushvili: developer mark
    20:41:13   Medea Gugushvili: issue as fixed
    20:41:23   Medea Gugushvili: then will it be in next
    20:41:38   Medea Gugushvili: dayly build?
    20:41:40   Marián Mirilovič: also depends how long is the bug in, so if it's regression catched very soon, it's usually fixed in next daily build
    20:41:41   Jiří Kovalský: Good question Medea!
    20:42:54   Gualtiero Testa: I understand focus is on bug fixing. What about enhancements / features requests ? Can we add them to Bugzilla or should we wait for 7.1 official ?
    20:43:04   Jiří Kovalský: There are two steps involved. Developer commits the fix into his branch. Then it must automatically propagate into silver-main, then build must be created and the it must be uploaded to the server.
    20:43:23   Jiří Kovalský: This can take one to few days.
    20:43:29   Jiří Kovalský: Am I right Marian?
    20:44:27   Marián Mirilovič: more or less, if the bug is marked as FIXED, it means the fix is already in place, then the comment from 'qa' user is added once the build with the fix is built, with the detailed information about build number and all the details ... more or less it's the next working day
    20:45:02   Medea Gugushvili: so after qa comment it is safe to test functionality? :D
    20:45:18   Marián Mirilovič: for 99.9% not be addressed in current release
    20:45:19   Marián Mirilovič: 2Gualtiero: yes, please log ENHANCEMENTs as well, they will for 99.9% not be addressed in current release, but it wil be a source of 'inspiration' for next release
    20:45:40   Jiří Kovalský: You must download the build that comment from "qa" user mentions. In it you can test the build.
    20:45:48   Jiří Kovalský: Typically it's next day.
    20:46:01   Medea Gugushvili: that it what i wanted confirm
    20:46:07   Marián Mirilovič: 2medeag: yes, download the build with build number in that comment and you can VERIFY the fix really fixes the problem
    20:46:08   Medea Gugushvili: thanks
    20:47:45   Ulf Zibis: I'm wondering. I estimate ~20 % of my RFEs have been addressed very soon.
    20:49:35   Marián Mirilovič: it depends, we have ~8100 enhancement .. so it's huge number, if the enhancements touches functionality that changed just recently and are GOOD, devlopment usually adresses that quickly, otherwise it takes longer, especially after Feature Freeze day (and we are after FF day for 7.1 today).
    20:50:12   Jiří Kovalský: 5. Others: tribes, terms, CAT points
    Great, I am sure that some of you noticed some new "vocabulary" :) or terms that are not fully clear. Something is explained here: http://wiki.netbeans.org/FaqNetCAT but let's explain it here.
    20:50:31   Jiří Kovalský: Marian talked about FF. What is it?
    20:50:46   Medea Gugushvili: Feature freeze i guess
    20:50:47   Medea Gugushvili: :))
    20:50:59   Jiří Kovalský: Yes, let's explain other terms.
    20:51:09   Jiří Kovalský: "FCS" is a First Customer Ship i.e. first publicly released build that passed final certification.
    "RC" is a Release Candidate i.e. build that can potentially become FCS if its follow-up testing does not discover any showstopper. Typically first two RCs contain some P1 bugs and RC3 or RC4 get eventually released as FCS.
    "HR" stands for High Resistance mode i.e. phase of stabilization when P3 bugs are no longer being fixed and only P1 or P2 bug fix integrations are allowed
    "CF" abbreviation means Code Freeze i.e. point of time when codebase is considered frozen unless showstopper (P1) is found and must be fixed
    20:51:38   Jiří Kovalský: "Waiving" means deferring a P2 bug fix. This step is taken for P2 bugs that are serious but that cannot be easily fixed, their fix is impractical, dangerous or not easily verifiable and it simply needs more time. Such bug is waived (gets 7.1_WAIVER_APPROVED keyword) and is no longer considered as potential showstopper for the release.
    20:52:02   Jiří Kovalský: And now two NetCAT specific terms.
    20:52:10   Jiří Kovalský: "tribes" are small teams (up to 5 members) of NetCAT participants with interest in particular feature. Their main goal is to help NetBeans QE during certifications by testing the feature in milestone candidate builds according to official test specifications. Then tribes give either Go or NoGo verdicts and release is either approved or postponed.
    20:52:33   Jiří Kovalský: This hopefully explains what certification is.
    20:52:39   Marián Mirilovič: > Then tribes give either Go or NoGo verdicts and release is either approved or postponed.
    20:52:48   Jiří Kovalský: "CAT points" are something like virtual coins that all NetCAT participants unknowingly :) collect throughout the program depending on their activity. For example a bug report is worth 4 CAT points, RFE is for 2, one e-mail adds you 1 CAT point. Most valuable are tutorial reviews (5 CAT points) and participation in certifications (5 CAT points per each Go/NoGo verdict) or surveys (5 or even 10 CAT points). You can also earn extra points for something exceptional of course. In the end, all points are totalled, all participants sorted and given number of best participants rewarded. See here for activity comparison from NetCAT 7.0: http://qa.netbeans.org/processes/cat/70/activity.html
    20:52:50   Marián Mirilovič: btw: this is the power you have
    20:53:01   Gualtiero Testa: How tribes are created ?
    20:53:33   Jiří Kovalský: See here: http://wiki.netbeans.org/NetCATTribes
    20:54:23   Claus Luethje: What is the job of a tribe leader? Coordination?
    20:54:34   Tushar Joshi: The tribes page shows my name as APISupport Tribe leader, will it be changed or can be continued?
    20:54:35   Jiří Kovalský: Tushar can explain that, Tushar? :)
    20:55:07   Tushar Joshi: Tribe leader should look after the coordination of all the participants who has agreed to be a part of that tribe
    20:55:07   Jiří Kovalský: You can keep it or you can step down. Depends on you.
    20:55:28   Jiří Kovalský: BTW, Tushar was one of the greatest tribe leaders in NetCAT 7.0!
    20:55:31   Tushar Joshi: also to ensure that all tests for that tribe are done by the participants and importantly for the GO NOGO decision
    20:55:48   Claus Luethje: Thanks, Tushar
    20:56:12   Rahul Saini: :) , thats gr8 tushar
    20:56:16   Dhawal Saiya: yes jiri i would like to add that Tushar sir is a great leader and great motivator
    20:56:26   Tushar Joshi: In that case I will continue for API SUpport tribe and all the past participants of that tribe are also in this chat and NetCAT
    20:56:49   Jiří Kovalský: I am really glad to hear that!
    20:57:04   Jiří Kovalský: OK, it seems like I have shed some light on the most important terms. Is there anything else which is not clear or that you don't understand?
    20:57:20   Medea Gugushvili: quoting Tushar "all tests for that tribe are done"
    20:57:29   Vibhuti Pithwa: Ya it was gr8 and will be gr8 to have Tushar as the tribe leader..:)
    20:57:30   Medea Gugushvili: do we have some kinds of uats?
    20:57:36   André Sabosch: is there an official definition for priority ranks (P1, P2, etc), some kind of a checklist, which one to use in bugreports?
    20:57:47   Vibhuti Pithwa: Oh i meant Tushar sir
    20:57:48   Medea Gugushvili: or we just randmonly do things?
    20:57:50   Jiří Kovalský: http://wiki.netbeans.org/BugPriorityGuidelines
    20:58:03   André Sabosch: ok, i see. thx
    20:58:09   Jiří Kovalský: Good question. Please stick to that and set priorities correctly.
    20:58:53   Ulf Zibis: In the end resolving the emoticon miracle ... Type mooning in paranthesis !
    20:59:24   Medea Gugushvili: was my question missed? :(
    21:00:08   Jiří Kovalský: Oh sorry Medea.
    21:00:13   Timon Veenstra: my daily work functions nicely as test script for me
    21:00:39   Medea Gugushvili: just Tushar's
    21:00:47   Medea Gugushvili: word catch my attention
    21:00:50   Jiří Kovalský: As a tribe member you must follow official test specifications during certification so that we can be sure that the functionality was tested.
    21:01:22   Jiří Kovalský: For example here you can see TS for Debugger: http://wiki.netbeans.org/TS_71_Debugger_Sanity
    21:01:55   Medea Gugushvili: ok
    21:01:55   Claus Luethje: Will everybody join a tribe eventually or are there tasks for non-tribe members?
    21:02:22   * Jiří Kovalský invited mueller-bruehl
    21:03:24   Jiří Kovalský: It's up to everyone's decision.
    21:03:37   Tushar Joshi: Ad hoc testing is the usual routine of the NetCAT participants, Tribe participants additionally test for specifications which are documented in wiki, and third part is verification of documentation for the latest version
    21:03:49   Jiří Kovalský: There were good participants that didn't want to join any tribe and tested the IDE freely and according to their needs.
    21:04:03   Tim Sparg: I presume that every tribe will have a list of tests that need to be run during the certification process?
    21:04:12   Jiří Kovalský: Yes, exactly.
    21:04:15   Claus Luethje: So, it's a matter of commitment
    21:04:22   Jiří Kovalský: We call them sanity test specifications.
    21:04:32   Claus Luethje: to join a tribe or not
    21:04:48   Jiří Kovalský: Yes, correct @ Claus
    21:05:15   Timon Veenstra: and probably how many people are in the tribe of your area
    21:05:43   Claus Luethje: Do you have experience on the amount of time needed to do "tribal work"?
    21:06:30   Tushar Joshi: Well, the sanity testing needs commitment when it is asked for may be between some dates given by Jiri and it takes around 1 hr per day for me
    21:06:42   Jiří Kovalský: It takes few hours during the certification weeks.
    21:07:06   Claus Luethje: that sounds reasonable
    21:07:12   Jiří Kovalský: For example members of my debugger tribe will use the sanity TS which takes like 2 hours.
    21:07:44   Jiří Kovalský: You get faster if you follow it second time or third time of course.
    21:08:24   Jiří Kovalský: Okay, I am done with my speech then.
    21:08:41   André Sabosch: one more question: whats the process to test other language versions? as example there is a final version in german available, but not as nightly build
    21:08:45   Jiří Kovalský: We slowly moved to Q&A section... ;)
    21:08:53   Jiří Kovalský: The floor is yours...
    21:09:05   Medea Gugushvili: was not it all Q&A? :D
    21:09:14   Jiří Kovalský: Yes of course. :)
    21:10:00   Gualtiero Testa: Can we safely use real projects in 7.1 dev ? I mean is there any compatibility reason which could prevent to "move back" the project to 7.0 ?
    21:10:21   Matthieu Jung: good question
    21:10:27   Jiří Kovalský: Translation is always slower than English release so testing of localization does not have any firm dates.
    21:10:33   Gualtiero Testa: Of course I'm not referring to 7.1 bugs.
    21:10:52   Jiří Kovalský: But if you are interested I can provide you with URL to the localized builds.
    21:11:04   Jiří Kovalský: Just don't know the location right now.
    21:11:08   Paolo Scarabelli: Is there a list of tutorial that need to be reviewed?
    21:11:28   Jiří Kovalský: Yes, there will be such list.
    21:11:50   André Sabosch: ok
    21:11:51   Jiří Kovalský: This was such list for NetCAT 7.0: http://wiki.netbeans.org/NetBeansTutorialsForCommunityReview
    21:12:06   Paolo Scarabelli: Thanks Jiri.
    21:12:08   Jiří Kovalský: Docs team will populate it after 7.1 Beta with new tutorials.
    21:12:15   Timon Veenstra: Is there a snapshot maven repository available to test maven based platform application on development versions?
    21:12:25   Claus Luethje: Jiri, don't forget Gualtieros Q. Important question!
    21:12:28   Marián Mirilovič: 2Gualtiero: actually the point is to use it on your REAL WORLD applications .... but the true is that it might happen that the project after openeing in newer version (7.1) will have some problems if reopened in older version (7.0) .. the reason is that project's metadata are regenerated at opening time
    21:12:53   Michael Mueller: Since I joined this chat lately: Will it's content be made available somewhere?
    21:13:18   Jiří Kovalský: Yes, its transcript will be published later. Don't worry Michael.
    21:13:34   Gualtiero Testa: I understand but is there any known incompatibility between 7.1 and 7.0 ?
    21:13:40   Michel Graciano: 2Gualtiero: I have used real project since NetCAT 5.5 without major problems. Sometimes I face severe problems which force me to go back to a previous version but usually it is temporary.
    21:14:12   Marián Mirilovič: no it isn't
    21:14:56   Gualtiero Testa: ok. Thanks.
    21:15:16   Claus Luethje: When is the right time to install 'old' plugins? RC1, FCS, later?
    21:15:35   Claus Luethje: by 'old' I mean, those of earlier versions
    21:16:07   Marián Mirilovič: 2claus: you can do that as soon as you wish, sooner you'll find a problem, sooner it will be fixed
    21:16:28   Claus Luethje: ok, thanks
    21:16:38   Michel Graciano: 2Gualtiero: I just suggest you to always have a stable IDE version available, sometimes it is necessary, mainly because time after time the daily builds has work still in progress.
    21:17:13   Timon Veenstra: Is there a dev/SNAPSHOT version available of http://bits.netbeans.org/maven2?
    21:17:22   Pavel Selivanov: I've found that russian translation for a dev builds is incomplete. Do you need help with that or it's just a matter of time?
    21:17:25   Gualtiero Testa: Obrigado, Michel.
    21:18:19   Jiří Kovalský: Many translations are not complete. Typically Core gets translated first, then J2SE modules and then rest.
    21:18:50   Jiří Kovalský: I am sure that your help to Russian translation team would be wholeheartedly welcome.
    21:19:19   Jiří Kovalský: If you are interested, let me know and I can get you contact person @Pavel.
    21:19:34   Pavel Selivanov: sure
    21:19:47   Claus Luethje: Is testing of accurate translations part of this netCAT?
    21:20:06   Jiří Kovalský: No, @ Claus
    21:20:33   André Sabosch: if help with german translation is needed, i would be available
    21:20:46   Jiří Kovalský: OK, my first action item. :) Will do Pavel.
    21:20:58   Jiří Kovalský: & André
    21:23:10   Timon Veenstra: Is there a dev/SNAPSHOT version available of http://bits.netbeans.org/maven2 ?
    21:23:37   Jiří Kovalský: Timon, I am not sure about it. I will find this out for you.
    21:23:47   Timon Veenstra: thanks
    21:24:33   Jiří Kovalský: OK. So, this is end of our chat today and I declar NetCAT 7.1 program as officially started. :)
    Thanks for your participation in our conversation, for very good questions and I look forward to our cooperation during NetCAT 7.1 program.
    21:24:58   Timon Veenstra: Thank you for the speech :)
    21:24:59   Claus Luethje: Thanks for this good intro, Jiri!
    21:24:59   Gualtiero Testa: Grazie Jiri and ciao to everybody
    21:25:00   Yannis Pastis Glaros: lets do some bug-hunt then :D
    21:25:07   Dmitry Danileyko: Thank you too.
    21:25:12   Medea Gugushvili: thanks to u and have a good holiday withou emails! :D
    21:25:16   Claus Luethje: yeah, let's squash those bugs!
    21:25:21   Marián Mirilovič: Thanks to all of you guys!
    21:25:23   Paolo Scarabelli: Thanks!
    21:25:26   Pavel Selivanov: see you in an buglists :)
    21:25:33   Cezariusz Marek: Thank you Jirka!
    21:25:39   Tushar Joshi: Thanks all for the time!
    21:25:46   Tim Sparg: sounds good
    21:25:47   José Galaviz: ok.... thanks for the intro... now i know what i'm to do here...
    21:25:49   Claus Luethje: Thanks to you all! See you in the forum ...
    21:25:58   Jiří Kovalský: Right. Let's help NetBeans 7.1 become rock&solid!
    21:25:59   Dmitry Danileyko: I would be glad to work with you fellas
    21:26:01   José Galaviz: love netbeans so much is time to give back
    21:26:10   Dhawal Saiya: Thanx jiri :) lets enjoy NETCAT 7.1 :)
    21:26:24   André Sabosch: @josé: +1 :)
    21:26:33   Jiří Kovalský: Thank you all and have a nice weekend everyone!
    21:26:37   Yannis Pastis Glaros: bye all :)
    21:26:53   Medea Gugushvili: bye everyone :)
    21:26:54   Matthieu Jung: bye all and good we
    21:26:56   Michel Graciano: A lot of new people, this gonna be fun :D
    21:27:04   Michel Graciano: have a nice weekend people
    21:27:05   Claus Luethje: Jiri, same to you + nice holidays!
    21:27:08   Dmitry Danileyko: bye
    21:27:11   André Sabosch: bye all
    21:27:14   Paolo Scarabelli: Same to you... Bye
    21:27:16   Jiří Kovalský: Bye bye!
    21:27:17   Tushar Joshi: Thanks Dhawal and Vibhuti for the late night participation it is almost 1am in India
    21:27:22   Marián Mirilovič: ALL: do not forget, Jiri is on vacation - starting tomorrow, any question you have please send to mailing list, I'll do my best to cover Jiri's duties, but let him rest and spend time with his family !
    21:27:36   * Medea Gugushvili left the chat (Unsubscribed).
    21:27:48   Mario Pérez Madueño: Happy hollidays jirka
    21:27:49   Dhawal Saiya: It was my pleasure to join this introductory chat
    21:27:53   Jiří Kovalský: Thanks Marian. And thank to all located in Asia!
    21:27:53   Michael: bye
    21:28:25   Vibhuti Pithwa: bye 2 all :) it ws v informative chat :)


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    Last Updated: September 11th, 2011

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