Transcript of NetCAT 5.0 chat #1

Date: Oct 12, 2005
Time: 3:00 p.m. - 4:00 p.m. CET
Total number of participants: 25
Number of NetCAT team members: 10

Screenshot #1 Screenshot #2


14:54:21Petr Blaha joined the conversation
14:56:50Marek Grummich joined the conversation
14:57:29Cesilko joined the conversation
14:57:44Milan Kubec joined the conversation
14:58:01Masoud joined the conversation
14:58:29Masoud hi every one.
14:58:42honza hello, everybody!
14:58:51Cesilko Hello !
14:59:18Cezariusz Marek Hello everybody
14:59:20Cesilko Hello everybody, let me welcome you in the very first NetCAT chat in a history !
14:59:25honza For those of you who don't know, Cesilko == Jiri Kovalsky
14:59:26nenik Welcome!
14:59:52Cesilko As we don't want this discussion to evolve into complete mess we all must obey basic rules. Here they are: 1. Only one open question is allowed at any time. 2. Raise question only if previously one was answered. 3. Sun employees are expected to answer questions upon request from moderator. 4. Conversation is moderated by Jiri Kovalsky (Cesilko).
14:59:54Roumen Hello. So many participants from NetCAT joined
15:00:25Tonda Nebuzelsky Hi there!
15:00:52Cesilko In spite of these rules please consider this chat as rather informal meeting. Program of the discussion: 1. First experience (< 10 minutes, all) 2. Introduction (< 5 minutes, Nenik) 3. Q-build summary (< 5 minutes, Cesilko) 4. Sharing file demo (<10 minutes, Cesilko) 5. Questions and answers (all)
15:01:34Cesilko So, let's start. Did you have a good journey to this Developer Collaboration chat ?
15:01:38Lukas Hasik joined the conversation
15:01:59Roxie Rochat joined the conversation
15:02:52Cezariusz Marek Pretty good Jirko, only one NPE at the startup
15:03:23Masoud collaboration chat is a gift for netbeans , IMHO
15:03:30Cesilko Fair enough, will you please report it later Marek ?
15:03:42nenik Already fixed the NPE, no need for reporting it
15:03:46Cezariusz Marek already reported and fixed for the next build
15:03:59marian joined the conversation
15:04:00Cesilko Wow, that's a response Nenik !
15:04:04Holger Stenzhorn joined the conversation
15:04:21Peter joined the conversation
15:04:41David Kaspar joined the conversation
15:04:57Michael Nascimento joined the conversation
15:05:08Cesilko No more comments about your experience with registration process etc. ?
15:05:30Roumen left the conversation
15:05:45Michael Nascimento hi folks
15:05:54Michael Nascimento i've just joined u
15:05:57Holger Stenzhorn Hi!
15:06:11Cesilko Hello guys.
15:06:12Michael Nascimento have i missed much?
15:06:14Roumen joined the conversation
15:06:27Cesilko I would like to repeat the basic rules for those who came recently.
15:06:36Michael Nascimento where's Jiri?
15:06:59Christopher Atlan joined the conversation
15:07:16Cesilko That's me - Cesilko.
15:07:32Michael Nascimento ok
15:07:44Christopher Atlan left the conversation
15:07:54Michael Nascimento here is my first question:
15:08:22Michael Nascimento do u intend to address most issues filed against javacvs?
15:08:30Masoud left the conversation
15:08:33Cesilko Wait a minute Michael.
15:08:37Michael Nascimento ok
15:09:16Cesilko Let me first ask Nenik to give us a brief introduction to this feature - Developer Colaboration tool. Nenik ?
15:09:27Michael Nascimento left the conversation
15:09:31Jan Lahoda joined the conversation
15:09:32nenik So, as you have all already seen, the collaboration support provides basic presence and messaging service as other IM systems, and some more advanced features.
15:10:31Christopher Atlan joined the conversation
15:10:40nenik For example the code aware chat - you can swich content types using those little buttons in in chat window and write java snippets with completion and everything.
15:11:38Christopher Atlan left the conversation
15:11:46Vano Beridze joined the conversation
15:12:11nenik The backlog pane can save a session transcript, which may be necessary, as you don't have all your messages stored as with e-mail.
15:12:12Vano Beridze hi all
15:12:22Petr Zajac joined the conversation
15:13:18Michael Nascimento joined the conversation
15:13:34Christopher Atlan joined the conversation
15:13:58nenik One of the high-profile features (and buggy one too, currently) is filesharing. You can not only share a file, you can also concurently edit it with your buddys during the conversation
15:14:31honza anybody else seeing the endless "Filesharing Channel - Synchronizing files" dialog?
15:14:39Vano Beridze I do
15:14:43Peter yes
15:14:43Holger Stenzhorn yes, I can see that too
15:14:49Petr Pisl joined the conversation
15:14:52marian honza me too....
15:14:53Tonda Nebuzelsky I simply closed it and it disappeared.
15:14:54nenik If you open the chat_rules.txt file, you'll realize that I've just added 5th rule.
15:14:54honza ok, Nenik, I think it's another bug
15:15:13Lukas Hasik I closed it already
15:15:32Masoud joined the conversation
15:15:38nenik Yes, I've seen the bug with hanging dialog before, but couldn't reproduce it. Thanks for your help
15:15:38Vano Beridze I must say it's a cool module
15:15:49Vano Beridze better than mailing list
15:16:08Christopher Atlan I have problems with the module on Mac OS X usign java 5, it only run with java 1.4
15:16:09Michael Nascimento this dialog which never disappears is here as well
15:16:23Glenn Holmer joined the conversation
15:16:40Vano Beridze May I ask an offtopic question?
15:16:40Roumen Just close it.
15:16:50Cesilko Okay, so can everybody see both the chat rules and program ?
15:17:07Vano Beridze I can see both files
15:17:08Michael Nascimento yes
15:17:11Masoud yes i can see ,
15:17:13Roumen Jirko it's better to ask questions in negative (is there anyone who cannot see...)
15:17:35Cesilko Wow, good advice Roumen !
15:17:43Glenn Holmer Yes, I can see them.
15:17:59Cesilko Fine. Do you want Nenik to add some more information ?
15:18:10nenik You can also open and read them
15:19:11nenik Yes. The collab framework is also very extensible, on both ends of the stack, so you may see more features comming and possibly other server protocol integrations as well.
15:20:00nenik There is one more interresting feature already, and that is remote command execution with output sharing.
15:20:15Michael Nascimento nenik, is there a way to send a private message to a participant?
15:21:26nenik If you're co-editing a project hosted on the other side, you may not have enough context to build it locally. So you can request a remote build and you'll get the build output as if it were happening on your machine.
15:22:13nenik Michael: No, not directly. You can always open a private conversation with the person in question, though.
15:23:11nenik Jiri, I've already run over my time, so it's your turn now, I guess.
15:23:31Cesilko Great, thanks Nenik for your wonderful presentation.
15:24:37Cesilko Now I would like to ask about today's Q-build testing. How many of you NetCAT participants did some active testing of the Q-build candidate ?
15:25:04Holger Stenzhorn I did but did not find any real show stoppers
15:25:18Cesilko Thanks Holger.
15:25:32Vano Beridze I did and find one bug but I guess it's not a showstopper
15:25:45Michael Nascimento well, jiri, since i use nb 5 to do my daily job, i cannot use an untested build
15:25:48Vano Beridze It's a regression from beta though
15:25:59Masoud i test the candidate too , i found no problem .
15:26:01Christopher Atlan i also work today with the q-build, and only have "mac os x java 5 issue". if i can call them so
15:26:07Michael Nascimento so i'll have to wait for this q-build to be promoted before using it
15:26:08Cesilko I've seen it. Our conclusion is you are right. It's not that serious. Thank you too Vano.
15:26:37Martin Brehovsky joined the conversation
15:26:56Cesilko Thank you both Masoud and Christopher too.
15:27:09Cesilko What do you mean Michael ?
15:28:05nenik Cesilko, you meant Chris, right?
15:28:40Cesilko No, I didn't understand Michael's comment to wait for promoted Q-build.
15:29:08Johan C. Stover joined the conversation
15:29:14Glenn Holmer left the conversation
15:29:44Vano Beridze I think he wanted to say that he does not want to rely his live project to daily "untested" build and will wait till it becomes marked q-build
15:29:46Michael Nascimento i'm using nb 5 to do my job, so i think it's too risky to use an untested q-build @ this environment
15:30:19Michael Nascimento once q-build is verified, i'll start using it
15:30:46Cesilko Okay. The only showstopper I know about found by NetCAT team member comes from Claudiu Bulcu and it is #66552.
15:31:00Glenn Holmer joined the conversation
15:31:04Vano Beridze From my experience it's safe to use daily builds afer first q-build following beta but it's your right to choose
15:31:17Cesilko So, having said that you are right, the development build #20051011180 will have to be fixed first.
15:31:37Jan Lahoda left the conversation
15:32:28Glenn Holmer I still can't check out from CVS in the 20051011 build.
15:32:46Cesilko Is it reported Glenn ?
15:33:06Roumen Vano: you're right, the bug you've found is a regression - I've just tried it in beta. I don't think it's so serious though - only few people need this setting probably. Did you try the workaround to add the library into lib directory of ant?
15:33:15Michael Nascimento i guess glenn means i bug he had found before is still there
15:33:44Michael Nascimento vano, could u plz send the number of the issue you're talking about?
15:33:57Vano Beridze Roumen: I did not have a chance, received your mail just straight before logging in here
15:34:20Cezariusz Marek I have a dialog titled "Filesharing Channel" with neverending progress. Is this normal?
15:34:22Roumen Vano: try it, it should help.
15:34:27Vano Beridze But I will try with a separate instance right now
15:35:29Johan C. Stover left the conversation
15:35:36Vano Beridze enterprise2/ant/nblib is the right dir?
15:35:45nenik Yes, it is a normal bug Just close it.
15:36:00Lukas Hasik Vano, Roumen: IMO - regression =>P1 according to http://qa.netbeans.org/bugzilla/bug_priority_guidelines.html
15:36:36Glenn Holmer Cesilko, I get a dialog referencing 65188.
15:36:38Vano Beridze I will raise the priority if nobody objects
15:36:58Michael Nascimento vano, what is the number for your issue?
15:37:24Vano Beridze http://netbeans.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=66583
15:38:05Cesilko I am looking at the issue Glenn, let me see ...
15:38:06Roumen Vano: I think it should be ide6/ant/lib
15:38:15Michael Nascimento interesting, i cannot copy the url vano has just sent me
15:38:19Michael Nascimento :-P
15:38:36Cesilko And can you just click it ?
15:38:43Vano Beridze I can copy it
15:38:45Michael Nascimento i mean, i cannot copy it by right-clicking it and using copy
15:39:01Michael Nascimento if i select the text and ctrl+c it then it works :-P
15:39:06nenik Have you tried selecting it first?
15:39:22Colin Wilson-Salt joined the conversation
15:39:35Michael Nascimento yes, if i select it works... but if i right-click it and choose copy, it doesn't
15:39:43Roumen Lukas: when judging priority of a bug you should take into account how many people are influenced by this bug. But I don't object, if you think this bug is important enough to be a showstopper, we can make it so.
15:40:02nenik Should you have your external browser configured correctly, clicking it would be enough...
15:40:43Glenn Holmer Cesilko, clicking the 65188 dialog, it comes back over and over.
15:40:59Vano Beridze Roumen the strange thing is that ide6/ant/lib contains file ant-commons-net.jar
15:41:05Cesilko Glenn, the bug you are referring is filed against 4.1. Does it mean you are not using new CVS support ?
15:41:11Vano Beridze But I still cannot use ftp task
15:41:31Vano Beridze Actually this is default install
15:42:20Vano Beridze Ok now I understand. It's just a ftp task definition
15:43:08Cesilko Folks, please try to avoid discussing more things at once.
15:43:56Glenn Holmer Cesilko, I am using the new CVS in 5.0. Bug number is listed in the dialog. Can I use this collaboration to put a screen dump of it for you to see (30k)?
15:44:26Cesilko Does it mean that you Vano insist on having your #66583 to be a showstopper ?
15:44:47nenik I gouess you'd better try towards the ned of the discussion...
15:44:48Vano Beridze No
15:45:04Vano Beridze I just verified and Roumen's workaround works fine
15:45:15Vano Beridze I will add as a comment to the bug
15:45:16Roumen Ok I will add the workaround to the bug.
15:45:21Roumen Sorry you can do it
15:45:30Vano Beridze no it's ok
15:45:40Cesilko Okay, in such case it wasn't necessary to increase the priority to P1.
15:45:54Vano Beridze I will make it down to P2
15:46:01Cesilko Okay, thanks.
15:46:15Vano Beridze Just don't want to make it P3, being afraid it will be lost
15:46:18Vano Beridze
15:46:31Cesilko Nenik, please do you recommend sharing the 30k screenshot from Glenn here ?
15:47:38Cesilko Okay, go ahead Glenn !
15:47:53nenik I'd love to test that, just don't like to kill the conversation yet. OK, it should survive, go for it.
15:48:21honza I've saved the transcript now. Just in case...
15:48:46Glenn Holmer Can you see the screenshot?
15:48:51Christopher Atlan i see it
15:48:59nenik Cool. Not that I undestand the issue, but it worked for me.
15:50:01Cezariusz Marek That's really cool, I can see the screenshot and even zoom it
15:50:31Cesilko Thanks Honza. I think I am gonna be big fan of Collaboration too !
15:50:35Vano Beridze I said this module rock
15:50:51Glenn Holmer This makes is impossible for us to check out from CVS; we are seeing it on both Linux and Windows. The server is CVS 1.12 on a Linux box with pserver connection.
15:51:10Cesilko Glenn, I will record the issue # and have a talk with responsible developer later on the list.
15:51:17Glenn Holmer Thanks!
15:51:22Cezariusz Marek What should happen after I press Java/HTML/XML button and send the text? It doesn't appear on the chat window.
15:51:31Cesilko Well, I regret to remind it but we have only 8 more minutes left. Then I and few more folks from Sun will have to leave for a meeting and so I want to open Q&A section.
15:51:45Cesilko Does anybody have any question for us ?
15:52:06Michael Nascimento ok then, javacvs: which bugs do u intend to address for nb fcs?
15:52:12nenik I've tried and it failed. It should send formatted text, but is seems it is broken in public conv. Worked perfectly in private conf last time I have checked.
15:52:39Vano Beridze I think it would be good to make regular meetings here
15:53:06Glenn Holmer May I bring up another CVS issue?
15:53:10Cesilko We will have to fix all P1 bugs, P2s also except those approved as waivers and some of the P3s.
15:53:30Cesilko Go on, Glenn.
15:54:09Michael Nascimento hmm, may i send a list of p3 issues filed against javacs to the list so we can check which ones should be marked as p2?
15:54:26Cesilko We can discuss it of course !
15:54:35honza Re "regular meetings": we can leave the 'netcat' conversation open, if people want to join and chat, they're free to do so any time
15:54:39Glenn Holmer We are have also seen 65188 a lot (SIOOB on checkout). Are other people reporting this?
15:55:25Claudiu Bulcu joined the conversation
15:55:40Michael Nascimento i do think the new javacvs module contains many regressions
15:55:42Vano Beridze I've got a question to Solaris users, if there are any
15:56:19Glenn Holmer Michael, I have to agree...
15:56:20Michael Nascimento many useful features have been removed and i'm afraid they won't come back even in nb 5.1 if we don't file issues against them
15:56:23Claudiu Bulcu I wanted to say a big HELLO to all
15:56:32Claudiu Bulcu I've just made it
15:56:42Christopher Atlan is there a secound chat planned?
15:57:00Cezariusz Marek I thing it would be nice to have scheduled netcat meetings, not just to leave the conversation open
15:57:02Vano Beridze Right now 5 warning dialogs poped up saying "cannot get exclusive access...."
15:57:10Cesilko Yes, I have a plan to arrange one more session like this.
15:57:32Glenn Holmer We should do this weekly.
15:57:39Michael Nascimento left the conversation
15:57:58Michael Nascimento joined the conversation
15:58:10Claudiu Bulcu Jiri, I'm here, but it's late
15:58:13Christopher Atlan yes, but maybe play with the time, so that other netcat member get the chance to join
15:58:22Cesilko Never mind Claudiu.
15:58:33David Kaspar left the conversation
15:58:33Claudiu Bulcu
15:59:08Cesilko The time is up. I have to leave this discussion. It was pleasure to have a talk with all of you. We can arrange similar meeting within say 2 weeks or discuss the possibility to have it regularly.
15:59:08Michael Nascimento one last question frome me:
15:59:11Claudiu Bulcu the session is one hour?
15:59:20Cesilko Yes, see you !
15:59:28Michael Nascimento is there any chance the patch i've submitted for this issue:
15:59:28Michael Nascimento http://netbeans.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=65366
15:59:33Claudiu Bulcu bye
15:59:34Michael Nascimento is applied?
16:00:12Cezariusz Marek It was nice to have an opportunity to talk with you!
16:00:51Cesilko Yes, did you find it useful ?
16:01:07nenik Michael: Try using the "Allow Enter" button next time to send multiline message instead of three separate (and dispersed).
16:01:09Claudiu Bulcu What are you doing, Jiri?
16:01:24Vano Beridze I think the we should increase conversation duration next time
16:01:28Claudiu Bulcu Your heart didn't let you?!
16:01:44Claudiu Bulcu didn't let you go, I mean
16:02:12Claudiu Bulcu
16:02:31Peter left the conversation
16:03:51nenik Cezariusz: Check the chat_program file
16:04:13Holger Stenzhorn left the conversation
16:04:23Tonda Nebuzelsky left the conversation
16:04:26Vano Beridze Is there any solaris user?
16:04:38Masoud left the conversation
16:05:10Tonda Nebuzelsky joined the conversation
16:06:13Christopher Atlan vano, i have one solaris at home, but nerver try netbeans on it ..
16:06:38nenik Chris, you have mentioned some collab+OSX+Java5 issue, what was it?
16:07:46Christopher Atlan Nenik, oh, importent for me look that i don't get it work with java 5 to work. everytime i try to open a conversation, the hole ide get freezen
16:08:54Christopher Atlan and P5, it look ugly under Aqua LaF - is the source aviable, if so, i would create patches for this myself.
16:09:32nenik complete collab is available in NB cvs (cvs/collab, ~10 submodules or so)
16:10:02nenik In case it hangs, generate a thread dump and file an issue for me (collab/code).
16:10:35Christopher Atlan thread dump goes okay
16:11:19Christopher Atlan and maybe i have time to play a little for the aqua laf
16:11:35nenik OK, thanks.
16:11:59Petr Blaha left the conversation
16:12:18Christopher Atlan oh, i really like the effect when some user join! look create
16:12:28Christopher Atlan that must say
16:13:28RadimK joined the conversation
16:13:45nenik Radim is certainly a solaris user, I've just invited him.
16:13:47marian left the conversation
16:14:21Glenn Holmer left the conversation
16:14:23Michael Nascimento hi nenik
16:14:24Masoud joined the conversation
16:14:36Michael Nascimento the dialog is popping up again
16:14:47Michael Nascimento it seems it comes and goes randomly
16:14:50Roumen The user join effect is really cool. I only get annoyed that sounds from collab can stop my xmms from playing
16:14:54Vano Beridze RadimK May I ask a question?
16:15:14RadimK sure
16:15:36honza left the conversation
16:15:37Claudiu Bulcu left the conversation
16:15:49Vano Beridze I don't think it's a netbeans' issue, just don't know where else to ask. I searched all the net
16:15:59Masoud as i have disconnected , can i ask hich part of chat we are ? i am waiting for QA
16:16:00nenik Michael, it may be caused by the Glenn's disconnect, but just close it again and file an issue for me (collab/code)
16:16:03Vano Beridze My problem is HTT IM Window appearing under dialogs
16:16:12Milan Kubec left the conversation
16:16:25Petr Pisl left the conversation
16:16:35Vano Beridze I want to disable it. Is it possible?
16:16:39nenik Masoud, the official discussion is already gone...
16:17:04Masoud im too late then
16:17:17Roumen but you can still ask, maybe somebody will answer
16:17:54Martin Brehovsky left the conversation
16:17:54Masoud Netbeans 5 code feature freezed , doesnt it ?
16:18:21Roumen yes, it's feature frozen already for weeks
16:18:21RadimK I do not know what is HTT IM and I use Solaris only ocasionally
16:18:59Masoud i want to know about netbeans next version , mostly the netbeans platform as in these days i find it very powerful.is there any place that i can see the next release roadmap , features .....
16:19:07Michael Nascimento i think netcat should begin one monthe before feature freeze
16:19:08Vano Beridze HTT IM window is a window where you can change input language. Little white window containig initially English/European
16:19:20Vano Beridze It's for changing locales
16:19:39Roumen Masoud: planning of next release (after 5.0) hasn't started yet
16:20:36Roumen Michael: it's a good idea, but generally NetCAT works because it has a clear goal (finding bugs). As Jiri wrote, he will write this message as one of the outputs from this NetCAT - to see what can be done for next release
16:20:56Cesilko left the conversation
16:20:56Masoud left the conversation
16:20:56Cezariusz Marek left the conversation
16:20:56Michael Nascimento left the conversation
16:20:56Colin Wilson-Salt left the conversation
16:20:56Roumen left the conversation
16:20:56Roxie Rochat left the conversation
16:20:56Marek Grummich left the conversation
16:21:18Roumen joined the conversation
16:21:23RadimK I do not use any localization support on Solaris so I can't help, sorry
16:22:03Vano Beridze RadimK what is the best place I can go to?
16:22:03Masaki joined the conversation
16:22:07Roumen Nenik if you're still here, the response from the right click on conversations is really slow. Does it go to the server to read menu items?
16:23:10Lukas Hasik left the conversation
16:23:15RadimK Definitely Petr (nenik) knows more about Solaris than including resources
16:23:49Christopher Atlan oh! Roumen, you remember me... i also thing that subscribe to public conversation is very slow when you click the browse button... look like there is a place to use swingworker
16:24:09Michael Nascimento joined the conversation
16:25:27nenik Roumen: Sure (No, actuall it checks your mangement rights for that conversation each time) There is a bug already filed for it (#62291)
16:25:47Roumen Ok fine
16:27:23nenik Vano, I do remember having the IM window attached to all dialogs when I was testing japanese (4+ years ago).
16:27:48nenik The window appears only when you run in suitable locale IIRC.
16:28:30Tonda Nebuzelsky Anyway, speaking about UI responsiveness, whenever you encounter such issue, please, file it in Issuezilla. The worst thing which can happen to you is that the bug will be closed as duplicate of some other bug...
16:28:31nenik Try changing the locale for given application ("LANG=C yourapp" from command prompt) or session wide (in dtlogin)
16:29:18Roumen Tondo, well, it's quite hard to file any bugs these days, Issuezilla is constantly time-outing
16:29:18gonzo joined the conversation
16:29:20nenik Tonda: Yeah, but both above mentioned issues are so visible that they are already filed (P2s)
16:29:40gonzo hello all
16:29:55nenik Gonzo: Cool, welcome onboard, nice to see you here.
16:30:00Tonda Nebuzelsky Nenik: Sure, I am speaking in general, not specifically about this one.
16:30:02Masoud joined the conversation
16:30:07gonzo glad to be here
16:30:44Roumen hi gonzo, the official chat is unfortunately over
16:30:48Masoud i disconnected again
16:30:56gonzo i'm always late to the prom
16:30:59gonzo no worries
16:30:59Masoud does my question reached your screen??
16:31:04nenik I've been giving short intro and talked about collab plugability, but haven't mentioned your work explicitely yet...
16:31:08Roumen Masoud: yes, it does.
16:31:37gonzo nenik: you are referring to the jxta spi?
16:32:26Masoud well , but i disconnected before i read the answers . I really like to know more about upcoming nb platform . does the api will break ?what features are considered to be added , ...
16:32:43Vano Beridze left the conversation
16:33:02Michael Nascimento btw, does anyone knows of any docs to understand the mdr api?
16:33:56nenik right
16:34:11Cesilko joined the conversation
16:34:22gonzo well, we/i have a ways to go yet. for example, group chat will be an interesting one to take on.
16:34:46gonzo that said, 1to1 (private conversation) and file sharing looks to be shaping up nicely.
16:34:46gonzo
16:34:49nenik I'll have to learn something more about JXTA yet
16:35:53Vano Beridze joined the conversation
16:35:55gonzo left the conversation
16:36:46Christopher Atlan hm... netbeans.org ... slow


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