Transcript of the 1st official NetBeans community chat

Topic: NetBeans 5.0 Experience
Date: Thursday, April 6th - 2006
Time: 5:00 p.m. CET (3:00 p.m. UTC)
Duration: 1 hour
Conversation: collab-users
Chat Client: NetBeans Developer Collaboration module

Total number of participants: 29
Average post rate: 1 message in 7.77 seconds



17:00:09Alex Lam: hi Roumen
17:00:24Roumen: hi guys
17:00:30RK: The formatted text mode is better than HTML mode, that was what I was looking for previously
17:00:39Cesilko: [17:00] *** 1. Introduction ***
17:00:43Masoud: hi Roumen
17:00:46RK: Hi Roman!
17:00:48Glenn Holmer: Hi Roumen, we love your Flash demos!
17:00:58Alex Lam: hurray
17:01:02Roumen: thanks...
17:01:14Daniel MD: Popular acclamation :Roumen we all love you
17:01:15Masoud: we have many NETCAT folk here @Glenn
17:01:19Roumen: More demos will come... don't worry
17:01:21Cesilko: Well, I think we are all here finally so let me warmly welcome everybody who decided to join this conversation.
17:01:28Glenn Holmer: Hi Masoud!
17:01:37Geertjan joined the conversation
17:01:41John Jullion-Ceccarelli: everybody should be doing flash demos!
17:01:42Daniel MD: Masoud: True
17:01:48Cesilko: I want to highlight that this is the very first chat organized for NetBeans community and its "official" part should be ~1 hour long.
17:01:56Geertjan: Hey dudes.
17:02:05John Jullion-Ceccarelli: See this: http://www.netbeans.org/kb/articles/CreateWinkDemo.html
17:02:08Cesilko: My name is Jiri Kovalsky and I will kind of moderate this chat.
17:02:09Alex Lam: hi Geertjan
17:02:14Vano Beridze joined the conversation
17:02:14Daniel MD: Geertjan: Documentation Hero welcome
17:02:20RK: John, we can we get the flash demo templates?
17:02:26Geertjan: Hi there Alex and Daniel.
17:02:26Cesilko: I have tried to write down basic rules for the upcoming discussion and you can see result of my work in chat_rules.java file.
17:02:33Masoud: hi geertjan
17:02:34RK: shit you answered my question before I asked it
17:02:35Vano Beridze: Hello everybody
17:02:39Cesilko: Wait a second folks ...
17:02:42Roumen: http://www.netbeans.org/kb/articles/CreateWinkDemo.html
17:02:43Geertjan: Hey Masoud, our man in Iran!
17:02:50John Jullion-Ceccarelli: They're there in that link I sent. Anyway, let me let Jirka moderate and we'll get to it in a second
17:02:59Alex Lam: should we pay attention to Cesilko for a second?
17:03:12Daniel MD: wait ppl... Jiri is trying to talk!
17:03:12John Jullion-Ceccarelli: Yes!
17:03:23Michael Mouer joined the conversation
17:03:24Cesilko: OK, thanks !
17:04:06Cesilko: OK, so once again: Well, I think we are all here finally so let me warmly welcome everybody who decided to join this conversation. I want to highlight that this is the very first chat organized for NetBeans community and its "official" part should be ~1 hour long. My name is Jiri Kovalsky and I will kind of moderate this chat. I have tried to write down basic rules for the upcoming discussion and you can see result of my work in chat_rules.java file. I hope you will find it at least funny. If you feel like making it compilable, it's up to you !
17:04:30Cesilko: Does everybody understand what I meant ? It's probably reasonable to recommend not to have more than 1 unanswered question in the air. Okay ?
17:04:42Roumen: Cesilko you have errors in your code
17:04:54Cesilko: Oh, really ? How come ?
17:04:57Daniel MD: lots fo tehm
17:05:09Dr.J joined the conversation
17:05:11Jiri Prox joined the conversation
17:05:13John Jullion-Ceccarelli: set your classpath!
17:05:20John Jullion-Ceccarelli:
17:05:26Roumen: Yes maybe we miss your libraries
17:05:42Cesilko: Yep. If you make it compilable, you get a t-shirt !
17:05:51Alex Lam: really? :-O
17:05:59Vano Beridze: I use NetBeans 5.0 with mustang build 78 and it deadlocks on opening web.xml
17:06:04Geertjan: Wow half the world and their mother seem to be here (i.e., a lot).
17:06:04Alex Lam: I'm getting all excited now
17:06:07Cesilko: No, I was joking. It's just not to use plain TXT.
17:06:30Cesilko: Vano, that's unfortunately known issue.
17:06:40Alex Lam: Cesilko: sorry I've forgotten to switch back
17:06:44Daniel MD: Vano: i think that is an issue with mustang
17:06:59Masoud: I get the same @ Vano ,
17:07:01Thomas Corbin joined the conversation
17:07:21Masoud: mustag b63 here
17:07:23Cesilko: [17:05] *** 2. Satisfaction with NetBeans 5.0 *** So, introduction is over and we can move on. In this part we would like to find out how you like new NetBeans 5.0 ?
17:07:36Alex Lam: Mustang b77 here
17:07:43Alex Lam: coz Jackpot does not like b78
17:07:46John Jullion-Ceccarelli: Ummm, Maxim, can you unshare that project?
17:08:12Glenn Holmer: Love 5.0. Still seeing some lingering issues with CVS, but we'll be switching to Subversion soon.
17:08:19Cesilko: Do you want the issue # Vano ?
17:08:21Alex Lam: Basically for me Java development == NetBeans
17:08:31Vano Beridze: For me too
17:08:32Cesilko: Cool then !
17:08:36Maxym Mykhalchuk: Hi John, I'll close myself now, I cannot unshare it
17:08:37Daniel MD: Casilko: As teh NetCAt ppl know some stuff did not made it to 5.0, but overall i am happy with it.
17:08:47John Jullion-Ceccarelli: Sorry, didn't mean to chase you off...
17:08:50Vano Beridze: I find myselft very productive with editor hints
17:09:01Maxym Mykhalchuk: It's OK
17:09:02Masoud: i am happy with 5 and optimistic for 6
17:09:02Maxym Mykhalchuk left the conversation
17:09:08Vano Beridze: Also refactorings are super :D
17:09:19Alex Lam: FYI, I'm using NetBeans 6 at the moment
17:09:23Vano Beridze: First there will be 5.5
17:09:28Michal Hlavac left the conversation
17:09:31Thomas Corbin: I certainly like netbeans 5.0 MUCH better than creator2. I have been envious of the stuff available in 5.0 and not available in creator2.
17:09:32Michal Hlavac joined the conversation
17:09:39Cesilko: It's interesting Masoud. But we will get to 6.0 later.
17:09:40Alex Lam: Matisse is magic
17:09:57Masoud: refactoring will come super super with jackpot integrated in netbeans
17:10:01Petr Vlček: I like NB because it can be set up in very short time with basic functionality (when compared to eclipse), must say that you are getting better . Looking forward for Subversion support.
17:10:05Daniel MD: Well i am waiting for JavaONE to see what is going to happen (OpenSource of the PACKS?Enterprise, Mobility?).
17:10:15Thomas Corbin: I look forward to the jsf stuff from creator2 being available in netbeans itself. We're also looking at using matisse with spring-rich.
17:10:26John Jullion-Ceccarelli: Want to ask about Matisse - have people had success modifying existing forms in Matisse? Meaning you've done your whole form and now you want to move something a little bit or insert a row of components?
17:10:30Cesilko: The deadlock with web.xml in 5.5 is reported here: http://netbeans.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=74384
17:10:32Roumen: Re: subversion have you already seen my subversion demo?
17:10:52Thomas Corbin: Ah, I haven't, but I am looking forward to seeing your subversion demo.
17:10:54Scott Kneeland joined the conversation
17:11:01Petr Vlček: 2 Roumen: yes , it was great
17:11:02Roumen: http://blogs.sun.com/roller/page/roumen?entry=flash_demo_of_new_subversion
17:11:11Michal Hlavac: subversion support looks good...
17:11:15Alex Lam: yes, I have seen the demo - when is the first public build of the real thing?
17:11:18Roumen: sorry for my shameles self-promotion :D
17:11:23Vano Beridze: Roumen I've seen it. Actually I visit your blogs every day. You're doing good, keep making good demos
17:11:23Thomas Corbin: I stopped using the cvs integration because of the version info in the editor tab title.
17:11:25John Jullion-Ceccarelli: shame on you!
17:11:44Thomas Corbin:
17:11:49Alex Lam: that's alright Roumen - no one will blame you here
17:11:53John Jullion-Ceccarelli: Thomas, because you miss it or because it's there?
17:12:00Roumen: it's actually not even a build yet... I just checked out the sources of 6.0 and the subversion module and built it
17:12:01Glenn Holmer: Roumen, just bookmarked it, can't wait to see it!
17:12:09avbravo: the visual interface for java server faces into netbeans?
17:12:29Thomas Corbin: Oh, because it's there and so I see fewer tabs and I like to see more tabs so it is easier to switch between them.
17:12:32Daniel MD: avbravo: It should be comming...
17:12:36Jason Burich joined the conversation
17:12:41Masoud: There will be some integration between JSC and netbeans 5 later this year AFAI read in blogs ;- )
17:12:45Vano Beridze: Daniel in 5.5?
17:12:50Thomas Corbin: I really enjoy Roumen's blog, it's great.
17:12:55Glenn Holmer: Are we still going to get the CVS view that shows revisions and tags together?
17:13:07Daniel MD: I am not sure check Tor blog for dates
17:13:07Thomas Corbin: Yes, I'm looking forward to the JSC and netbeans integration later on.
17:13:08John Jullion-Ceccarelli: avbravo - that's coming, we'll talk future plans later, including subversion. for now, i'd like to hear your thoughts on 5.0. seriously, is matisse really mature or is it just a toy? what things do you have trouble with? (looking for things we need to cover in docs)
17:13:22Walter Barnes: Wow! wasn't expecting that
17:13:28Roumen: we will demo Creator 2 modules based on NetBeans on Java One... this will be something like alpha
17:13:41Masoud: Netbeans + JCS will be killer
17:13:47Thomas Corbin: For me, since I use spring-rich, integration with spring-rich is important before I can use matisse. Fortunately there are efforts to make that happen.
17:14:08Thomas Corbin: Oh, good - I'll read about the Java one JSC/netbeans info in people's blogs.
17:14:19Cesilko: Well, am I the only one hardly trying to read all the comments without any chance to react immediatelly ?
17:14:23Walter Barnes: Too many files came in at once at netbeans blinked out for 10 min... I'm afraid I'm a bit behind
17:14:25Geertjan: Anyone here going to be at JavaOne?
17:14:29Alex Lam: NetBeans 5.0 is a serious killer though - my friends around me start to see the light with this release
17:14:38Thomas Corbin: Cesilko: it's hard to keep up!
17:14:40Vano Beridze: John Jullion-Ceccarelli: Matisse lacks positionings
17:14:48John Jullion-Ceccarelli: What do you mean positionings?
17:14:48Glenn Holmer: I plan to go to NetBeans Software Day, but not JavaOne.
17:14:59Masoud: Roumen , will be any public availablity of JCS module for netbeans 5 after on during javaone ?
17:15:01Geertjan: Okay, see you there Glenn.
17:15:04Thomas Corbin: I don't know about netbeans, but I've found creator2 to be a bit buggy. But overall fairly good.
17:15:14Vano Beridze: For example I want to have 3 controls and the same height between them
17:15:17Alex Lam: and a few of them were ranting about NB5 not coming out sooner, coz they've chosen Ecllipse for their final year project and it's half way already
17:15:18David Beer left the conversation
17:15:20Roumen: Masoud, I don't know yet
17:15:23Cesilko: Exactly ! @Thomas
17:15:36Petr Adamek joined the conversation
17:15:37Michael Mouer: matisse is good - problem I've had is filling a JTable placed on a JScrollPane with data - can add & label columns in the TableModelEditor - but can't find model name to add data.
17:15:38Masoud: JCS is nb 4.1 based so ,it is not as cool as nebteans 5
17:15:42Thomas Corbin: I certainly enjoy the netbeans community.
17:15:44Petr Vlček: Hi, Petr .
17:15:47RK: GJ: I'm at java one
17:15:50John Jullion-Ceccarelli: Does selecting them, right-clicking, and choosing Same Size gt; Same height not work?
17:15:52Daniel MD: @celsiko: You guys, dont' spend time in IRC channel
17:15:54Thomas Corbin: Yes, I agree with you Masoud.
17:15:59Geertjan: Cool RK!
17:16:08Masoud: i am really excited to see people of same interests here
17:16:12Thomas Corbin: No, I sure don't spend time in IRC, so I am not used to this.
17:16:22Vano Beridze: No I want to make same distance between controls
17:16:31John Jullion-Ceccarelli: yes, specifying the model is a bit tricky. a colleague just did it here, let me see if I can dig up his email where he explained it
17:16:38Thomas Corbin: I'll be jealous of those of you at java one - I expect to read all about it in the blogs!
17:16:54Daniel MD: @Thomes +1
17:16:59Geertjan: Thomas Corbin, my blog will make it feel as if you are there!
17:16:59Alex Lam: +1
17:17:05David Beer joined the conversation
17:17:13Vano Beridze: I wish I have money to attend javaone
17:17:14Cesilko: Welcome David !
17:17:21Thomas Corbin: I apprecate it, Geertjan. I certainly like your blog already. it's been helpful.
17:17:36Masoud: Thank for your weblog @Geertjan
17:17:43Daniel MD: Geertjan blog: is technically the best i read
17:17:51John Jullion-Ceccarelli: Oh yes, one way to do it (I think) is to create your own instance of a model first in the file, then select in in the model property editor.
17:18:02Thomas Corbin: I love Roumen's podcasts too.
17:18:06Alex Lam: hey shall we shout out vocabs about NB5?
17:18:12Masoud: is it hard to moderate the conversation @Cesilko
17:18:13Roumen: Glenn: I am sure you'll hear about Creator modules based on NetBeans on NB day in San Francisco as well. Hopefully they will manage to integrate it... it's a lot of work. The new EJB 3.0 persistance is also very cool...
17:18:20Daniel MD: Roumen: Is teh best, becasue of variaty, flahs demos, persnal, etc...
17:18:48Alex Lam: Matisse
17:18:50Thomas Corbin: Is the new EJB 3.0 persistance going to be integrated with Matisse databindings?
17:18:51Roumen: Thanks, guys... let's stick to what Cesilko wants to discuss But thanks for praising my blogs etc.
17:18:54John Jullion-Ceccarelli: thomas corbin - aha, yeah, we don't have the same distance between components thing. do you have an example of a program that does that (doesn't necessarily have to be swing builder)
17:18:56Alex Lam: Refactoring
17:18:56Cesilko: It's impossible ! @ Masoud
17:19:18Vano Beridze: Visual Studio
17:19:18Alex Lam: Ease of use
17:19:23Masoud: Alex like JackPot
17:19:27Thomas Corbin: I'm sorry JJC, I lost track of the questions and topics.
17:19:27John Jullion-Ceccarelli: OK - will take a look
17:19:48Glenn Holmer: What about CVS tags (issue 66138)? will we see this?
17:19:48Roumen: Databindings with Matisse are a theme for NetBeans 6.0
17:19:57Alex Lam: yes I do, I think Jackpot is going to be the star in NetBeans
17:20:06John Jullion-Ceccarelli: I know, it's chaos here was asking what product has same spacing between components. Vano says visual Studio
17:20:18Daniel MD: @celsiko: Why not create a file with topic for name, so ppl keep on topic? Oh then the refresh problem forget it.
17:20:25Masoud: Databinding will promote Matisse more than one steps ahead
17:20:31Thomas Corbin: But will it be integrated with persistance, or does that even make sense? Will the data bindings come from the swingX stuff?
17:20:38John Jullion-Ceccarelli: oh yeah... big things coming in the editor area...
17:20:55Thomas Corbin: I'm looking for some formatting support from the editor.
17:21:12Roumen: The databindings should come from swingx, yes
17:21:14David Beer left the conversation
17:21:29Thomas Corbin: Ah cool - I'll have to read up on them to prepare for that then. (swingx bindings)
17:21:45Walter Barnes: Cesilko: I'm a bit out of the loop, my internet is a bit chunky, when all the files came in NetBeans blanked out for 10 min
17:21:53Daniel MD: swingX has allot of cool stuff, i know that they will do an awsome demo in javaONE
17:21:54Roumen: it's now called swinglabs
17:22:12Cesilko: It's one of the planned improvements @Glenn but now we work full steam on SubVersion. It will most probably get fixed via AUC.
17:22:16Roumen: https://swinglabs.dev.java.net/
17:22:21Masoud: Editor is heart of ide , what other people think ?
17:22:31Roumen: I absolutely agree, Masoud!
17:22:31Walter Barnes: Cesilko: If it's not too much trouble, could you provide a recap of what I missed?
17:22:37Vano Beridze: I completely agree
17:22:38Cesilko: Which files you mean Walter ?
17:22:46Alex Lam: I agree Masoud
17:22:52Glenn Holmer: Thanks Jiri :)
17:22:59Daniel MD: @masoud: I would if it was a bit faster, and had some more features
17:23:00Cesilko: Well, guys I will surely publish transcript tomorrow !
17:23:01Jason Burich left the conversation
17:23:02Thomas Corbin: I do spend most of my time editing, but I also think an important use of an ide for me is to gather info, to find out what methods are available, following call chains, and to make coherent changes in code.
17:23:18Maxym Mykhalchuk joined the conversation
17:23:35Masoud: so we should have more intellegent Editor at the first priority for netbeans 6 , we really need first class editor with a first class IDe
17:23:42John Jullion-Ceccarelli: Walter - a recap is kinda tough, since things are going so fast. Right now we're talking about satisfaction with 50 but it's morphing towards what we'd like in the future...
17:24:01Thomas Corbin: A wayward conversation.
17:24:02Jason Burich joined the conversation
17:24:10Alex Lam: so shall we list out what we like about the NB Editor @ NB5 first?
17:24:20Masoud: :| @ Thomas
17:24:22Alex Lam: then we can start looking into RFEs
17:24:23Cesilko: I have some info on 6.0 guys, don't worry. Although it's rather moderate ...
17:24:30Daniel MD: @Massoud: +1 (editor should be priority for main IDE), UML for enterprise pack, and CDC for mobility pack, all my top priorities for 6.0 release.
17:24:35Thomas Corbin: I am sorry for you guys, but I think a lot of people come to netbeans from eclipse, so a lot of conversations start, "But in Eclipse, we could do this..."
17:24:38Walter Barnes: The ones in the share file box... I think NB might have started a GC at the same moment they came in
17:24:39Jason Burich left the conversation
17:25:21Thomas Corbin: I like some things in netbeans better than in eclipse, as far as the editor, but some things worse.
17:25:21Masoud: ) @ walter
17:25:46Michael Mouer left the conversation
17:25:54Scott Kneeland: Examples, TC?
17:26:07Cesilko: OK, thanks for this wild discussion.
17:26:25Masoud: lets listen to Jiri
17:26:27Geertjan: Hurray for me, I just solved a Wicket problem.
17:26:31Cesilko: [17:25] *** 3. Need some help ? *** OK, our time is limited and I would like to switch to another item.
17:26:48Cesilko: With NetBeans 5.0 we (NetBeans development team) started to work on also other activites that would help you use out IDE.
17:26:52RK: hurray Geertjan
17:27:00Daniel MD: yes this one interestes me the most, what stuff should have more support?
17:27:08Cesilko: That's why I invite John Jullion-Ceccarelli, our docs team rep. Can you elaborate this John a bit ?
17:27:10Thomas Corbin: Oh, I like the way eclipse auto indents better, when typing the parameters of a method call. Or the way it indents better when I'm leaving more spaces between the start of a comment text and the "//" - we have standardized on 4 spaces there. Or that I can get a tab/panel showing the hierarchy of a class.
17:27:15Daniel MD: more flash movies and tuts?
17:27:42Alex Lam: Yes - as someone mentioned some time ago, insertion of components into a ready-made Matisse form could get into troubles at times
17:27:47Vano Beridze: Good subversion integration and jsf support
17:27:53John Jullion-Ceccarelli: OK, so on the support and docs front, we've been doing lots of stuff.
17:28:01Thomas Corbin: I like the way you can say "I want to replace this variable, but just in this method."
17:28:26Thomas Corbin: In netbeans, I like the alt-f7 and search and replace.
17:28:43Thomas Corbin: Yes, the tutorials, flash, and blogs have been great.
17:28:53Daniel MD: I ahve problems with docs format, (they don't render all the same) but i thnk this is more of a collab.net problem
17:28:54Thomas Corbin: The example projects are really nice, too.
17:29:01John Jullion-Ceccarelli: The first thing is we've been getting all of the developers to contribute docs as part of their regular duties, and a lot of these have shown up on netbeans.org under Making the Most of NetBeans. Does anyone go to the main nb.org web page to look at what new docs are out there?
17:29:19Cesilko: Can you John mention the most interesting things ?
17:29:24Meg Watson left the conversation
17:29:41Daniel MD: I do, and sometimes it is hard to find new stuff
17:29:41John Jullion-Ceccarelli: Well, there was a great article about doing a free-form project setup
17:29:42Cesilko: Or others, do you mentioned that effort in reality ?
17:29:50Thomas Corbin: Sorry, I find the netbeans web side somewhat intimidating.
17:29:58Petr Vlček: We rather read blogs.
17:29:59Alex Lam: the only times I know some docs are out is when ppl mention it on NB mailing list / blogs
17:30:01John Jullion-Ceccarelli: http://www.netbeans.org/kb/articles/freeform-import.html
17:30:03Cesilko: I know what you mean Thomas.
17:30:10Glenn Holmer: John, maybe you should post on nb-announce when big new docs are put out there.
17:30:12Masoud: i like to have some feeds on all subjects of netbeans.org website
17:30:12Thomas Corbin: I wish I knew how to explain *why* I find it so intimidating.
17:30:13John Jullion-Ceccarelli: Yes, it is pretty intimidating
17:30:21Daniel MD: Let me just say that netbeans.org: It has issues
17:30:34David Beer joined the conversation
17:30:46Vano Beridze: The outstanding issue with the site is username bug.
17:30:48John Jullion-Ceccarelli: So another thing we're doing is setting up a RSS feed with all the new tutorials, so you can subscribe to it without having to wander into the dangerous waters of nb.org
17:31:01Thomas Corbin: cool.
17:31:04John Jullion-Ceccarelli: It's coming Massoud, believe me.
17:31:05avbravo: i think the great idea
17:31:07Alex Lam: that's a good idea John
17:31:20Masoud: very good John that is really needed
17:31:23Glenn Holmer: +1
17:31:27Cesilko: [17:30] *** 4. Offer some help ? *** Fine. This item is related to the previous one.
17:31:33Daniel MD: +1
17:31:39John Jullion-Ceccarelli: Another thing I've been working on is a new welcome screen that has an RSS feed reader right in it and shows you new NB blogs and articles right in the welcome screen
17:31:49Alex Lam: I think the problem with the NB web site is rather that too much information from too many categories are competing
17:31:49Thomas Corbin: Hey, I like the debugger!
17:31:52RK: So when you are looking for info/a tutorial, how often do you find it on nb.org?
17:32:06Alex Lam: ii.e., the web site interface has saturated
17:32:10Dr.J: John, that is a GREAT idea
17:32:13Masoud: new welcome Page is welcome
17:32:23Alex Lam: if that is the case we can't really do much about it :-P
17:32:29Cesilko: To be honest, we would like to get more people involved in the process. There is a page that describes 4 basic ways how to help NetBeans and community.
17:32:30Thomas Corbin: One thing I've found hard to get a handle on is once I get a project started and then find out I want to change the configuration - now I want to do jsp or jsf and previously I was only doing swing - how do I go about changing the project?
17:32:42Cesilko: Please take a look here and express your thoughts on the wish list.
17:32:43Daniel MD: Help, well i don't know if Kai is here, but livebeans is not working, if kay does not get back to me in a couple of days i will start a new forum, if you wan to know more stay for after-hours. I will not steal the conversation right now.
17:33:01John Jullion-Ceccarelli: right now, it's a pain. A good thing to do is click Docs and Support, then click Articles in the left side. that has an archive of everything that's been in making the most of netbeans sorted by functionality. i'm working on "Learning Trails" in the website where docs are grouped in a more sane matter
17:33:02Alex Lam: Cesilko: would you mind providing the links?
17:33:08Cesilko: http://www.netbeans.org/community/contribute/web-content.html Anybody willing to contribute some of the listed items ?
17:33:11Masoud: can you provide FEEd for module catalogs too @John ?
17:33:16John Jullion-Ceccarelli: Yes, please look and contribute!
17:33:24Vano Beridze: When you decide to change the welcome page I hope it will be announced on webteam mailing list in order to have a chance to translate it
17:34:17John Jullion-Ceccarelli: We've been trying to make things easier to contribute. We've put up a few templates, one for flash demos using wink http://www.netbeans.org/kb/articles/CreateWinkDemo.html and one for a tutorial http://www.netbeans.org/kb/articles/tutorial-template.html
17:34:20Daniel MD: John: isnt' that an RFE? I am glad you guys are doing it anyway
17:34:29Maxym Mykhalchuk: Hi Vano, the translation is not that simple, the actual news will not be translated, or?...
17:34:31Masoud: one of those wish list is undergo@Cesilko
17:34:41Cesilko: Which one Masoud ?
17:35:22Vano Beridze: I understand. I think that it would be disadvantage to discard all translated old pages
17:35:23Masoud: Using Facelets with NetBeans .
17:35:34Alex Lam: oh btw the identification colours are running out Cesilko
17:35:39Masoud: but more than just using facelets with netbeans
17:35:40Thomas Corbin: One thing about netbeans and the recent looks contest. And I hate to say it.... but netbeans just doesn't look as good as I wish it did. I don't know why, but I suspect it has to do with spacing and other UI stuff that I don't know how to express. I compare it to most of my kde applications. To me, netbeans doesn't look or feel as solid.
17:35:47Petr Adamek: @Cesilko I am translating NB into czech and I want to translate some documentation too.
17:35:54Cesilko: So far I see everybody's name without problems ...
17:35:54Alex Lam: there are only 4 colours to identify ppl in the chat room?!
17:35:57Thomas Corbin: facelets would be nice.
17:36:05Cesilko: Cool, thanks Petre !
17:36:13Alex Lam: yes I do - but most of them are in black now
17:36:27Vano Beridze: I counted 6
17:36:40Alex Lam: yes I've just noticed the 5th color
17:36:55Cesilko: Oh, that's true ! I will try to change that in the transcript.
17:36:59Alex Lam: so yes counting black it's 6
17:37:08Maxym Mykhalchuk: Red?
17:37:14Alex Lam: green
17:37:15Daniel MD: @celsiko link gives me blank page
17:37:17Alex Lam: blue
17:37:20Alex Lam: cyan
17:37:21Thomas Corbin: I missed the start. Is that NetbeansChat java file an example from the start of the conversation ?
17:37:23Scott Kneeland: Don't forget Mr silent here.
17:37:35Alex Lam: pink and black
17:37:42John Jullion-Ceccarelli: Of course, the thing that would be nicest would be to have wiki on nb.org, would make it much easier for people to contribute. we have the java.net one but i don't like having our info all over the place. there has been some grumbling about this internally and I think you could see some sort of wiki in the intermediate future.
17:37:58Walter Barnes: would that be me? lol
17:37:59Thomas Corbin: I love wikis. They are nice.
17:38:01Cesilko: Which link @Daniel ?
17:38:03Masoud: Scott , why are you silent
17:38:05Petr Adamek: @John wiki is great idea
17:38:15John Jullion-Ceccarelli: I don't want to be Mr. Pink. Why can't I be Mr. Black?
17:38:15Daniel MD: http://www.netbeans.org/community/contribute/web-content.html
17:38:21Walter Barnes: sorry about the silience... a bit too fast for me
17:38:26Maxym Mykhalchuk: Tell that to Collab.net
17:38:27John Jullion-Ceccarelli: Cuz Mr. Black is a guy on another job, now shut up!
17:38:31Thomas Corbin Mr. Black!
17:38:34John Jullion-Ceccarelli: name that flick...
17:38:34Daniel MD: @john My forum would have a wiki template
17:38:36Alex Lam: Daniel: may be it's got flooded
17:38:39Masoud: Wiki is great but i think there is a wiki in java.net? about netbeans . wiki is good if you can centeralize the content
17:38:55Daniel MD: @masoued i think it is oonly for dev
17:39:02Maxym Mykhalchuk: Yes, so the wiki must definitely be on netbeans.org
17:39:30Alex Lam: do we not have a netbeans wiki on java.net?
17:39:38Thomas Corbin: So, netbeans source is now or soon to be only java 1.5?
17:39:48John Jullion-Ceccarelli: yeah, java.net has the wiki but most people don't know about it, it doesn't look very nice, and mostly it's not linked with netbeans.org in any way. we want something that'll allow wiki content without you feeling like you've totally left the netbeans world
17:39:48Masoud: in case you are going to provide a wiki , then try to centeraize it , even if all dev/users content come to one wiki
17:40:06Alex Lam: well as of the daily builds, it is Tiger already
17:40:15Thomas Corbin: Cool.
17:40:22Thomas Corbin: Love java 1.5
17:40:26John Jullion-Ceccarelli: masoud, my thoughts exactly. want to have one web site to rule them all (and in the darkness bind them...)
17:40:35John Jullion-Ceccarelli: i've been watching too much tv lately
17:40:46Alex Lam: that's alright
17:40:53Masoud: one ring to find them all ......
17:40:55John Jullion-Ceccarelli: So who wants to write a doc? come on, we've got something like 25 people here, i'm sure I can convince someone to sign up for a doc...
17:41:11Thomas Corbin: Sigh. Not time. And I sound too pompous when I write.
17:41:13John Jullion-Ceccarelli: here's an easy one. an introduction to the new CVS system. lots of folks use it...
17:41:13Alex Lam: a doc on?
17:41:14Maxym Mykhalchuk: And what about Java 6? Will it be supported by NetBeans 5.5 or only by 6.0?
17:41:16Cesilko: When ? Don't you write documentation all the time @ John ?
17:41:18Daniel MD: I can do somehitng in mobility
17:41:26Daniel MD: can't see wish list
17:41:28John Jullion-Ceccarelli: here's the docs wishlist: http://www.netbeans.org/community/contribute/web-content.html
17:41:36John Jullion-Ceccarelli: at the bottom
17:41:38Daniel MD: i get blank page
17:41:38Masoud: i will do facelets , as it is undergo
17:42:02Vano Beridze: Can anyone answer Maxym's question?
17:42:02John Jullion-Ceccarelli
    * Porting Eclipse Plug-ins to NetBeans
    * Porting SWT Applications to Swing/NetBeans Platform
    * Porting a regular Swing programs to use the NetBeans Platform
    * Working with new NetBeans CVS functionality
    * Placing a NetBeans projects into CVS
    * Setting Up a Local CVS Repository
    * Checking out from CVS and doing headless builds
    * Update NetBeans/CVS/SourceForge article
    * Update NetBeans and SSH article
    * Doing Java EE 5 Development in NetBeans 5.0 (5 in 5)
    * Developing Spring Framework Applications With NetBeans
    * Using the Tapestry Framework With NetBeans
    * Using Facelets with NetBeans
    * Developing EJB 2.1 CMP Entity Beans with JBoss in NetBeans
    * Converting an EJB2 application to EJB3 with NetBeans
    * Converting a Hibernate2 application to EJB3 with NetBeans
    * Tag Library development in NetBeans
    * RESTful web services with NetBeans (Jirka Kopsa"s idea)
    * Integrating JDIC components with NetBeans
    * Accessing MS Access/MSSQL from NetBeans

17:42:10John Jullion-Ceccarelli 1 oops, that didn"t work...
17:42:17John Jullion-Ceccarelli: sorry
17:42:24Glenn Holmer: looked cool, though :)
17:42:30Thomas Corbin:
17:42:30Thomas Corbin:
17:42:32Daniel MD: Hum... IE doesn't render from here, firefox does? wierd
17:42:46Cesilko: Wow, I thought I have to run away from my computer ...
17:42:46Maxym Mykhalchuk: About the wishlist... Will there be a new versioning plugin for anything else than CVS?
17:42:50Peter VC joined the conversation
17:43:00Daniel MD: @John, settign up local CVS is mine :=
17:43:06John Jullion-Ceccarelli: daniel, try hitting refresh button. common problem with nb.org
17:43:11John Jullion-Ceccarelli: sweet
17:43:26Daniel MD: can i do it in flash?
17:43:28Alex Lam: I tried refresh in IE7 and didn't work
17:43:30Maxym Mykhalchuk: BTW, I can do "Update NetBeans/CVS/SourceForge article"
17:43:40Alex Lam: but the NB's build-in browser works
17:43:56Daniel MD: wierd ie doesn't seem to be rendering
17:43:56RK: Alex, when you look at the page source, is the whole page empty or what?
17:44:04Cesilko: Wow, cool. Come on guys !
17:44:07Alex Lam: the page is there in the source
17:44:08Maxym Mykhalchuk: It's what I do every day usually
17:44:11John Jullion-Ceccarelli: sweet!!!
17:44:22Thomas Corbin: *Is* there any special help or module for using netbeans and spring?
17:44:41Alex Lam: RK: just blank in the browser window, that's all
17:44:43Maxym Mykhalchuk: I mean NetBeans --gt; CVS --gt; SSH tunnel --gt; cvs.sf.net
17:44:47Masoud: will any one look at : RESTful web services with NetBeans
17:44:50John Jullion-Ceccarelli: Not that I know of. The article would be how to set up the libraries, perhaps add code snippets to the component template
17:45:00RK: Alex: Now that's weird. And all other nb.org pages work in IE?
17:45:10Alex Lam: RK: yes
17:45:21John Jullion-Ceccarelli: thanx maxym! thanx Daniel! anybody else? any eclipse developers out there wanna explain how to port an eclipse module to nb?
17:45:27Thomas Corbin: I would be neat to do something for spring like Geertjan does for wicket.
17:45:34Alex Lam: RK: and the jackpot project page works
17:45:47Masoud: JCC , porting eclipse module to netbeans is not trivial .
17:45:52John Jullion-Ceccarelli: I know
17:45:59Masoud: it will need more than a tutorial or article
17:46:06Cesilko: [17:45] *** 5. NetBeans home page *** OK, let's go on.
17:46:12John Jullion-Ceccarelli: Ok
17:46:12Alex Lam: probably a module
17:46:15Alex Lam: OK
17:46:22Cesilko: How do you like our web pages ?
17:46:25Kumar joined the conversation
17:46:27Walter Barnes left the conversation
17:46:32Cesilko: Simply put, do you usually find what you are looking for ? Do you think it should be restructured or it just needs new look and feel ?
17:46:55Thomas Corbin: I'm so intimidated, I usually just use google to find a page, rather than go to the nb site directly.
17:47:05Petr Adamek: @Cesilko It's quite difficult to find required information sometimes :-(
17:47:07Thomas Corbin: I think there is a LOT there.
17:47:10John Jullion-Ceccarelli: i'd be interested in what kinds of info you're looking for. I think it's obvious no one finds what they want...
17:47:12Daniel MD: It needs allot of stufff, username issue must be solved
17:47:15Alex Lam: well apart from the issue tracker, the download section and the bugs charts, I don't really find the rest that useful"
17:47:16John Jullion-Ceccarelli: there's a ton there...
17:47:18Masoud: i think nb site need a new LAF at the first step
17:47:49John Jullion-Ceccarelli: what do you use most? downloads? issuezilla?
17:48:02John Jullion-Ceccarelli: do you use our FAQs? tutorials?
17:48:04Thomas Corbin: I think I need to use issuezilla more.
17:48:06Daniel MD: Try to find artcils
17:48:12Thomas Corbin: I use faqs, blogs, tutorials.
17:48:15Alex Lam: yes, both downloads and issuezilla @John
17:48:25Kumar: Yes I would agree with Masoud, the web site needs to more easier to navigate.. I don;t much care about LAF
17:48:30Masoud: Download / issuezilla / Tutorials . but belive me the search functionality need iimprovement
17:48:39John Jullion-Ceccarelli: yeah, search sux
17:48:42Daniel MD: oh yeas
17:48:54Dr.J: Downloads mostly, tutorials as new stuff emerges
17:49:08Maxym Mykhalchuk: Restructured!
17:49:11Alex Lam: I don't mind the news, but I'm not sure if a (potential) IDE user would like to see the news and featured titles when they first enter NetBeans.org
17:49:29Cesilko: As for the poor search capabilities it's filed as http://netbeans.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=66160
17:49:35Alex Lam: I'd rather be seeing some cool NetBeans screenshots and have a download button
17:49:38Masoud: the login problem definitly should be solved for both nb.org and java.net . it is 2006
17:50:00RK: Download button is being designed right now
17:50:02Daniel MD: yes i have said this to romen once, i think nb main apge shoiuld look more like firefox
17:50:06Masoud: Agree with Alex
17:50:08John Jullion-Ceccarelli: So, like I said, we're working on a "learning trails" concept for our tutorials - group flash demos, training, and tutorials by development area. check out the matisse learning trail for a rough idea of what this could look like: http://www.netbeans.org/kb/articles/matisse.html
17:50:24Petr Adamek: I think that would be useful to have some big list of all tutorials or other documents
17:50:40John Jullion-Ceccarelli: yup, we're definitely trying to redo the main page, drop a lot of the garbage that's there, and have a big download button a la firefox
17:50:52Roumen: this is the list you're looking for: http://www.javapassion.com/netbeans/masterindex.html
17:50:54John Jullion-Ceccarelli: there is http://www.netbeans.org/kb/kb.html
17:51:14Masoud: agree with petr , but a categorized list + a ISO or what ever image for all articles and tutorial for each year or version of netbeans could be really helpful.
17:51:15Daniel MD: I am doing a list of all the update centers
17:51:32Geertjan: Excellent idea Daniel MD!
17:51:42Geertjan: I thought of the same thing but haven't done it yet,
17:51:43Roumen: We were actually discussing the idea of an ISO before... with docs & demos
17:51:56John Jullion-Ceccarelli: so if we had an ISO or a big "download all our docs" ZIP, would you download it?
17:51:58Geertjan: Where are you making this list?
17:52:00RK: and flash movies on a CD
17:52:08Masoud: sure @john
17:52:08Roumen: Sang Shin maintains http://www.javapassion.com/netbeans/masterindex.html
17:52:26Daniel MD: @geertjan it will be on the forum/wiki
17:52:29Maxym Mykhalchuk: Just look at the clearly designed http://civicspacelabs.org/home/
17:52:43Geertjan: Excellent Daniel MD, let me know when it is there.
17:52:46Cesilko: Yes, in other words what is the threashold of such ZIP size for you ?
17:52:47Alex Lam: the master index looks good
17:53:02Alex Lam: esp if the layout is improved
17:53:15Daniel MD: @celsiko: one CD?!?
17:53:17John Jullion-Ceccarelli: thanks maxym. yeah everybody, if you have an example of a docs and support page for other products that has tons of content and manages to present it in a sane way, paste the link here or send it to john.c@sun.com
17:53:36Masoud: for me , for now : 200-300 meg . but in next few month i will have no limit on size
17:53:59John Jullion-Ceccarelli: Dig the civic space design, so cool and clear. unfortunately we've got too many cooks in the kitchen, doubt we could ever boil it down to something so clean.
17:54:21Cesilko: Really you have no problem with downloading 650 MB ?
17:54:37Alex Lam: nope - esp if you do it in BT
17:54:47avbravo: but not, free netbeans CD doc
17:54:50Alex Lam: I've been downloading a few GBs per day
17:54:57John Jullion-Ceccarelli: we could let people order a free cd as well... or have the netbeans dvd that has the installers and the entire doc set
17:55:04John Jullion-Ceccarelli: BT he he he
17:55:08Daniel MD: no not really Broadband here
17:55:21Alex Lam: yes - is it too expensive to do DVDs instead of CDs?
17:55:39Daniel MD: it usually takes me 30min to download 650MB (dependign on server speed).
17:55:42John Jullion-Ceccarelli: hey, anybody want a saturday project? I wanna do a BT client based on the NB platform. only thing is I'm not a developer. I think it'd be a great way to spread the NB Platform message
17:55:42Petr Adamek: Netbeans DVD with lots of documents is good idea
17:55:42Masoud: I remember that in some stage Eclipse people used BT for solving thier server saturation of download requests
17:55:46John Jullion-Ceccarelli: and defeat the evil SWT
17:55:46Thomas Corbin: Hey, just convince the ubuntu people to include it! Then they'll be mailing it out on cd for you!
17:55:48Peter VC: You may want to consider using something like the update center for the docs. People could "subscribe" to the docs they want, they would update automatically (as docs change often) and we wouldn't have to suffer the indignity of a 650MB download whenever a critical doc changed.
17:55:50Cesilko: OK, I see.
17:56:02Cesilko: [17:55] *** 6. What comes next *** And now the last item in our agenda.
17:56:09Thomas Corbin: Oooh, bittorrent on nb would be tres cool.
17:56:12Alex Lam: I'll see if I can @John
17:56:25John Jullion-Ceccarelli: contact me offline if you're into it - john.c@sun.com
17:56:31Cesilko: Are you curious what are plans for the future ? I am sure most of you already heard about NetBeans 5.5 being the next release followed by major release NetBeans 6.0.
17:56:39Epesh joined the conversation
17:56:40Vano Beridze: Jiri Is there any plans on NetCat?
17:57:03Masoud: UC is not fault tolerant@Peter VC , so a big doc file can not be fetch by UC client
17:57:05Cesilko: Yes, we will have NetCATs in the future !
17:57:06Petr Adamek: @Cesilko Yes, of course
17:57:13Epesh: Hello, all. When is the scheduled chat starting?
17:57:23Cesilko: Briefly, 5.5 will be the first IDE to support Java EE 5. Its main drivers are: 1. EJB 3 session beans 2. Java Persistence Support 3. Java EE Application Client Support 4. Web Service 2.0 Support 5. Some more ...
17:57:33Thomas Corbin: Epesh: it's almost over.
17:57:37Vano Beridze: Jiri, Could you please tell us estimate start date of NetCat?
17:57:48Epesh: Urgh - sorry I missed it.
17:57:51John Jullion-Ceccarelli: java ee 5 is gonna totally rock. sorry to sound like a cheerleader, but as a docs guy, this is so much easier to document
17:57:51Cesilko: Will do in a while.
17:57:55Peter VC: Thats why you wouldn't package it as one HUGE doc - you'd keep them seperate so you'd only download the ones you wanted
17:57:57Masoud: Vano , you really missed the NEtcat as i see
17:58:05Cesilko: As for the 6.0, it's main theme will be new Java infrastructure with codename Retouche. It should most probably replace current MDR. The point is to dramatically improve editor features. Our goal is not to catch up Eclipse. We want to reach Idea's editor.
17:58:13Epesh: glassfish is pretty nice except for the GC problems on redeployment.
17:58:14Vano Beridze: Yes definitely
17:58:26Kumar: Can some help me understand what is the difference between a preview version & q-build in the 5.5
17:58:30Thomas Corbin: What editor features do you have in mind for 6?
17:58:31Cesilko: If you want to know something about the dates, NetBeans 5.5 Beta will be available for JavaOne (i.e. mid May). FCS should be released in Q4 this year. Accordingly NetBeans 6.0 is targeted at JavaOne 2007.
17:58:38Daniel MD: @CElsiko: applz for effort
17:58:41Epesh: q-build is ongoing build, preview is a static build
17:58:50Masoud: if your goal is ideal editor then you catched eclipse automatically
17:58:56Cesilko: Context aware completion, super fast completion etc.
17:58:56John Jullion-Ceccarelli: I saw a retouche demo that blew my mind. There's some close cooperation between the javac team and the netbeans team that allows some pretty amazing stuff in the editor, like when you put your cursor in a variable name and it highlights throughout the file, and in the error stripe, where the variable is used. start changing the variable name and it changes it throughout file on the fly. lots of other cool stuff. and that was stuff that we got for free with almost no development effort, when we really build on the javac apis we're gonna have the best editor in town
17:59:02Alex Lam: I like this - I have been working with an IntelliJ programmer on a project and their editor do perform miracles at times
17:59:10Peter VC: Any idea of which version of NB (5.5 or 6.0) will have native SVN support?
17:59:12Glenn Holmer: Kumar, http://qa.netbeans.org/processes/q-builds-program.html
17:59:13John Jullion-Ceccarelli: that plus jackpot. - as tony soprano says - fugedaboutit
17:59:26Alex Lam: so it will be excellent to improve NetBeans' editor based on that
17:59:58Epesh: since we're talking about NB, is there a concerted effort to populate the collab network going on? Most of the channels I'm on stay empty.
18:00:00Vano Beridze: I remember promise to issue subversion plugin on auto update after 5.0 release
18:00:14Masoud: Jiri , will we have a copetitor editor for netbeans 6 ?
18:00:21Daniel MD: How about proejct looking glass? 3D is this going forward ?
18:00:22Thomas Corbin: It sounds good. Does that retouche editor -changing variable thing recognize the difference between variables with the same name in different methods?
18:00:37Cesilko: So, NetCAT 5.5 should start accordingly with NetBeans 5.5 Beta minus ~1 week.
18:00:56Alex Lam: I think looking glass is still quite some distance away
18:01:02Maxym Mykhalchuk: Subversion in a new versioning thing?
18:01:06John Jullion-Ceccarelli: @Thomas - didn't get that deep into it. i'm sure our UI designers will make it all slick and cover the main use cases
18:01:17Glenn Holmer: I just hope the editor doesn't get too in-your-face with things popping up all over the place. It's good to have help, but please let's don't have talking paper clips :)
18:01:22Thomas Corbin: I'm sure they will, thanks.
18:01:26Dr.J: Looking Glass takes a LOT of horsepower
18:01:27Peter VC: My "Synchronizing files, please wait ..." box is stuck open
18:01:35Thomas Corbin: It *does* sound exciting.
18:01:36John Jullion-Ceccarelli: just close it
18:01:38Alex Lam: close it then @Peter
18:01:40Vano Beridze: Peter just close it
18:01:43Peter VC: bah
18:01:46Cesilko: Subversion is CVS successor.
18:01:52RK: Peter: Mine too, and I have a fast connection...
18:01:57Thomas Corbin: svn is much better than cvs.
18:01:59Alex Lam: no, no paper clips
18:01:59Daniel MD: @Glenn: I thnk i will forget how to code with NetBeans version 6.0.
18:02:08Maxym Mykhalchuk: 2Cesilko: what you mean?
18:02:10Thomas Corbin: netbeans "bob".
18:02:20Masoud: Glenn , more on screen help you have , more productive you are . its eclipse favour scentence
18:02:22Alex Lam: I think we should take Jackpot into NetBeans 6
18:02:43Cesilko: You asked about Subversion not ?
18:02:44Alex Lam: so we can apply Effective Java, PMD and Findbugs rules automagically
18:02:45RK: We could have Geertjan's or John's face popup instead of Clippy :-p
18:02:54Masoud: i think jackpot should have a good integration with netbeans 5 ,5.5 . there islong way until netbeans 6
18:02:58Daniel MD: I Think the packs need open sourcing (specially Mobility Pack).
18:03:00John Jullion-Ceccarelli: we have looked at doing a dynamic help window, something that's down in the corner and refreshes with links to javadoc and help topics depending on what's selected, either in the UI or the source editor. would you find that annoying/a waste of screen real estate, or would you find it valuable?
18:03:07Vano Beridze: I think Subversion must be ready before beta to test it properly during netcat
18:03:15Cesilko: We will provide Subversion support soon.
18:03:19Maxym Mykhalchuk: 2Cesilok: Yes, I asked is it planned to have a Subversion plugin with the same capabilities as the new CVS plugin?
18:03:21Cesilko: It will be @ Vano !
18:03:23Masoud: [ot] any one from nbextras.org here?
18:03:23Epesh: @john: waste, annoying
18:03:25Alex Lam: Indeed - but Jackpot needs Mustang @Masoud
18:03:32Cesilko: Exactly @Maxym.
18:03:34Thomas Corbin: What about the effort to move the javadoc thing to your help window? Is that official or just for fun?
18:03:36John Jullion-Ceccarelli: @RK you don't wanna see my ugly mug on your computer, believe me.
18:03:51Masoud: you mean mustag features or mustag runtime?
18:03:52Glenn Holmer: John, I would like that better. I was just talking with someone else on my team about how the Javadoc popup leaves you a little slit of code to see like window blinds...
18:04:03Maxym Mykhalchuk: 2John J-C: Annoying. Ctrl+F1 rules!
18:04:18Vano Beridze: Mustang really flies. I don't use jdk 1.5 anymore
18:04:20Epesh: @glenn; Maybe if it slid out from the left hand side to obscure something OTHER than your code
18:04:20Alex Lam: I think the MSDN dynamic help in Visual Studio is quite helpful @John
18:04:24John Jullion-Ceccarelli: @Thomas - you mean the Javadoc preview in code completiongt;
18:04:37Epesh: I can't use mustang since Glassfish still has problems with it for me
18:04:39Alex Lam: may be it can act as a good start into the ideas @John
18:04:52John Jullion-Ceccarelli: yeah, most likely position would be below the navigator
18:05:00Daniel MD: What about Open Sourcing the packs will you do that? I mean Nokia is starting to be a player in mobility IDEs
18:05:06Vano Beridze: I hope NetBeans 5.5 will target mustang as a runtime
18:05:11Masoud: @JCC Creator has a dynamic help , like VS dynamic help
18:05:11RK: Tomas: about retouche: yes I think it's the point of retouche that it can tell the difference between two variables that have the same name in different scopes -- else it would be just search and replace and we already have that.
18:05:13Cesilko: [18:00] *** 7. What each NB developer fears the most ? *** Finally, I wanted to share something cool with you.
18:05:30Epesh: What about integrating JSC's JSF components into NB somehow?
18:05:55Masoud: I fear the next morning i wake up and see that NB web site is down
18:05:57John Jullion-Ceccarelli: here's the kiss of death question. anybody use the online help system? if yes, what sucks about it? if not, why not? would you want the whole online help system to be on the web so you could google it, or would that just give you too many bogus results when you're googling for tutorials?
18:05:57Daniel MD: Epesh: you are late, already mention, tht yes it will happen
18:06:01Masoud: lol
18:06:14Epesh: daniel: sorry about that
18:06:15Peter VC: You can add all the autocompletion, auto help, "do what I'm thinking now" stuff - just make sure there is a way to disable individual features
18:09:17John Jullion-Ceccarelli: @vano - do you like Creator's implementation? Is it helpful?
18:09:30Kumar: Trying convince my director to use Netbeans and while demoing the GUI freezes
18:09:30Alex Lam: well if the online system is down, we will be crying for help @John
18:09:30Alex Lam: Cesilko: hey you managed to break a build? :-O
18:09:30Peter VC left the conversation
18:09:30Alex Lam: hmmm... there seems to be a major lag since my own messages are not appearing...
18:09:30David Beer left the conversation
18:09:30Maxym Mykhalchuk: 2Cesilko: I fear my boss! Oh no, he's coming to the offfice, minimize, minimize, ohhh
18:09:30Maxym Mykhalchuk: Online help sucks. Is it possible to move to external browser?
18:09:30Glenn Holmer: The golem! I always wanted to see him!
18:09:32Vano Beridze left the conversation
18:09:32Maxym Mykhalchuk: Oops. I got disconnected
18:09:32RK: @Masoud Hehe Me too
18:09:32John Jullion-Ceccarelli left the conversation
18:09:32Masoud left the conversation
18:09:32Daniel MD left the conversation
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18:09:32RK: And the auto completion should not slow you down or interrpt when you already know what to type and type quickly.
18:09:32keip left the conversation
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18:09:32avbravo: i'm think that the integrationc with JSC's
18:09:32avbravo: drag and drop for the java server faces support
18:09:32Epesh: @john: mainly it doesn't have enough support from modules
18:09:32Cesilko: Tim Boudreau has already published it in his blog a week ago. Look at the picture I have just shared with you. This is our famous Golem.
18:09:32Dr.J: Yes, I use the on-line help. I think it's quite good.
18:09:32Petr Vlček: I fear garbage collector .
18:09:32Cesilko: Can you guess why everybody fears him ?
18:09:32Dr.J left the conversation
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18:09:43keip joined the conversation
18:09:53Glenn Holmer: Isn't he the guy NB developers have to have on their desk if they break the auto-build?
18:10:09RK: woah, what was that, a netsplit?
18:10:33John Jullion-Ceccarelli joined the conversation
18:10:35Daniel MD joined the conversation
18:11:13Scott Kneeland: Did we lose our group for a moment?
18:11:28Cesilko: I think it was caused by the size of the picture.
18:11:30Maxym Mykhalchuk: 2John Jullion: I use Online Help, but mostly to read Ant manual. It sucks a bit, because, well, JavaHelp sucks...
18:11:37Cesilko: Can you see it now without problem ?
18:11:37Daniel MD: Hum... NB crasehd on me
18:11:44Cesilko: Glenn is right !
18:11:51Scott Kneeland: I was just paused for 4 min
18:12:03John Jullion-Ceccarelli: yeah, i got kicked off so i lost the history. wish collaboration coudl save the history
18:12:10RK: Oh you shared the golem... that slowed everything down... weird
18:12:19Roumen left the conversation
18:12:25Cesilko: The explanation is described here: http://weblogs.java.net/blog/timboudreau/archive/2006/03/the_netbeans_go.html In short, if you do a CVS commit that breaks the build, you need to have this ugly ceramic statue visible on your desk. And be sure that everybody else knows what this means ...
18:12:39Daniel MD: damn you golem
18:12:43John Jullion-Ceccarelli: he he he
18:12:46RK: right-click the window and choose save
18:13:01Cesilko: Yes, that's why everybody fears him ! :-O
18:13:03Kumar: Sometimes I feel the responce time of the GUI is very slow.. (maybe there is some conf. I am missing_
18:13:05Peter VC: like the dunce cap of olde
18:13:17Geertjan: Thanks RK didn't know that (I haven't been talking much because I'mw rokign on the Wicket app).
18:13:26Scott Kneeland: The Golem created a tidal wave and threw many a sailor into the sea.
18:13:31John Jullion-Ceccarelli: work on your spelling instead, bucko
18:13:39Daniel MD: LOL
18:13:53Geertjan: Yeah yeah whatever dude.
18:14:10Maxym Mykhalchuk: 2John: About online help. Is is possible to move to external web browser (but bundle help files with NetBeans)?
18:14:13Cesilko: So we are done. I hope you liked it.
18:14:31Daniel MD: it was caos, but lovelly
18:14:49Kumar left the conversation
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18:14:55Petr Vlček: 2 Cesilko: It was very funny, thank you. Hope it helped you a bit.
18:14:55Cesilko: And as I have said, I will provide transcript tomorrow. My IDE didn't crash so I saved the history.
18:15:19Cesilko: Sure ! We have bunch of things to think about ...
18:15:22keip left the conversation
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18:15:33Alex Lam: right it was my turn to get kicked by the server
18:15:39Peter VC: Is there any logging built into the collab modual to capture history?
18:15:42Geertjan left the conversation
18:15:56John Jullion-Ceccarelli: @maxym - having the help in external browser is double-edged sword. it's nice cuz it's decoupled from the IDE window. but it's bad because you can't do anything like link between helpsets, link to actions in the IDE (we don't do this much now but would like to) etc.
18:16:12Vano Beridze: Man I'v been disconnected. Was that a surprise ?
18:16:26Maxym Mykhalchuk: OK, John
18:16:26Daniel MD: @John, a word: Are you guys really going to implement a wiki? And what is the license of the documentation?
18:16:26John Jullion-Ceccarelli: @Peter - no, you have to manually save it. so if you get kicked off you're screwed...
18:16:35Alex Lam: it was for me @Vano
18:16:53Masoud joined the conversation
18:16:55Cesilko: Unformated transcript shared ...
18:17:03Daniel MD: it was golem
18:17:19Masoud: aha , i come back .
18:17:26Alex Lam: think so
18:17:38Alex Lam: welcome back Masoud
18:17:44Cesilko: Cool surprise, wasn't it ? @Vano
18:17:51John Jullion-Ceccarelli: @Daniel - officiall, I know nothing, I hear nothng, I say nothing... unofficially, we're testing out internally how it would work. we'd open up an area, I think, that would be a sandbox for the community. anything under there would be totally open source by default (no licensing) but I guess our lawyers will have a field day with that.
18:18:08Alex Lam: I'm still stuck on how to do an instanceof for primitives
18:18:10Masoud: i get a very unfamiliar error , duplicate session detected, from Collab module
18:18:10John Jullion-Ceccarelli: as to when and how... well, everything seems to take a long time...
18:18:28Alex Lam: I've got 2 copies of Daniel as well
18:18:40Daniel MD: JJC: OK then, i will do my stuff not waiting for your stuff
18:18:43Alex Lam: thought cloning is illegal
18:19:02Vano Beridze: OK guys It's been a fun to chat with you
18:19:09Masoud: i have two copy of many of my friends , it is a known bug though
18:19:16Alex Lam: nice to meet you too Vano
18:19:17Cesilko: Yes, that's known issue. @Alex
18:19:19John Jullion-Ceccarelli: yup, i gotta run too. see y'all fun chat.
18:19:29Daniel MD: Ok cya
18:19:32Scott Kneeland left the conversation
18:19:34John Jullion-Ceccarelli left the conversation
18:19:37Cesilko: OK, see you !
18:20:02Masoud: is the official chat ended ? so we are open to talk ?
18:20:02Glenn Holmer left the conversation
18:20:05Daniel MD: I also have some "clones"
18:20:22Cesilko: Yes, now you can talk whatever you want ...
18:20:25Daniel MD: yeap official is over: WELCOME to AFTER-HOURS
18:20:26Masoud: does any one say new BEA workshop ? version 9.2 based on eclipse
18:20:30Alex Lam: now that the official chat has ended - is there anyone who could help me with my java code here? :-P
18:20:43Cesilko: After-Chat begins ...
18:20:52Epesh: @Alex: that's a problem with the collab module - not enough people USE it
18:20:58Alex Lam: thanks for the hard work Cesilko
18:21:03Masoud: when you will publish transscript
18:21:12Epesh: i.e., ejb3, general, javaee, javaserverfaces, etc -- all empty, all the time
18:21:23Cesilko: Well, I think I was kind of useless here ... Anyway thanks !
18:21:35Cesilko: Tomorrow. Will work on it during night.
18:21:36Masoud: @Jiri .and as you saw there is a high demand for netbeans chat
18:21:37Alex Lam: @Epesh: I know, and I don't normally use collab this way anyway :-P
18:21:54Cesilko: What topics would you welcome next time ?
18:21:59Masoud: will you work on preiodic chat program ?
18:22:08Epesh: Grrr, I'm in here as "Epesh?"
18:22:11Daniel MD: Alex: i never worked with java 1.5 , i am mobility guy
18:22:14Alex Lam: @Cesilko: you act well as a topic leader and moderator
18:22:22Maxym Mykhalchuk: See you
18:22:29Daniel MD: See Maxym
18:22:54Alex Lam: Daniel: it's not a java 1.5 problem really - the instanceof keyword has been around for a long time
18:22:57Cesilko: Don't know yet. If you liked it I can organize another instanceof Chat.
18:23:04Alex Lam: see you Maxym
18:23:20Masoud: i think we can talk about : new features for editor , port of JSC to nebeans , port of UML and enterprise package on netbeans ..
18:23:25Alex Lam: Cesilko: that would be an overkill
18:23:45Alex Lam: oh UML and new editor is good
18:23:46Maxym Mykhalchuk left the conversation


$Date: 2009/11/02 14:13:05 $ GMT [Back]

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QA was started in November 2009, is owned by Jiří Kovalský, and has 97 members.
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